View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Do we balance out our lead range by leading the turn like this?
Maniackid11
Eating Fish
Balla
Members
Forum Posts: 316
Member Since:
November 28, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
September 9, 2018 - 5:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

WPN, 350/700 blinds, 70 ante No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 8,360 (11.9 bb)
Hero (BB): 28,323 (40.5 bb)
UTG+1: 47,695 (68.1 bb)
UTG+2: 9,720 (13.9 bb)
MP1: 53,711 (76.7 bb)
MP2: 13,135 (18.8 bb)
MP3: 31,965 (45.7 bb)
CO: 23,720 (33.9 bb)
BTN: 29,067 (41.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 6
4 folds, MP3 raises to 1,475, 2 folds, SB calls 1,125, Hero calls 775

Flop: (5,055) J J A (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks

Turn: (5,055) K (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets 2,528, 2 folds

Results: 5,055 pot
Final Board: J J A K
SB mucked and lost (-1,545 net)
Hero mucked 6 6 and won 5,055 (3,510 net)
MP3 mucked and lost (-1,545 net)

Because I think I’m doing this with a J too. Is that too fishy?

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
September 10, 2018 - 8:42 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Here’s some things to think about:

1. Assuming this is a bet you’ll make with some combination of trips+ and bluffs, why are you choosing this size for the bet?

2. What makes 6s 6h an appealing bluffing hand?

DuckinDaDeck
Hunting Max EV
Sunday Major
Members
Forum Posts: 284
Member Since:
February 8, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
September 10, 2018 - 11:40 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Good questions from Andrew. I like bluffing after the flop checks through, but here you’ll probably run into a lot of pot controlled Aces as well as some Kings. Not saying that you shouldn’t be bluffing, but I’ll give you a hint toward question number 2: do we have cards that block villain’s stronger hands?

Maniackid11
Eating Fish
Balla
Members
Forum Posts: 316
Member Since:
November 28, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
September 10, 2018 - 11:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

1. How often does this bet size have to work in order to be profitable?

2. The return on investment of course.

DuckinDaDeck
Hunting Max EV
Sunday Major
Members
Forum Posts: 284
Member Since:
February 8, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
September 10, 2018 - 3:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I don’t think you should rush to answer those questions with one-liners. They are actually much deeper than that, and I worry that you’re missing the point.

1) It’s easy to figure out that your 1/2 pot bet is profitable if it wins the pot 33% of the time. It may work often enough, and it’s a great price to give yourself if villain’s calling range is relatively inelastic. On a board this static, an argument could be made for betting smaller. People either have a part of this board (and aren’t folding) or they don’t (and are folding). One card gutshots may call a small enough bet and flush draws may fold to a large enough one, but most other hands will play the same regardless of bet size.

You generally don’t need to worry about being balanced in most tournaments, but it’s worth thinking about whether you ever want to bet 1/2 pot with a Jack or a straight. If the answer seems like no, it might seem like no to an astute villain as well. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t bet this size with your strong hands, but it’s worth thinking about.

One of the many things you want to consider when choosing bet sizes is what hands will call X bet size but not Y size. If you can roughly estimate where that threshold lies, you can go a bit below it when hunting value and a bit above it when bluffing. Before betting, you may want to ask yourself:

– what hands are never folding/never calling?

– what hands are calling small bets but may fold to larger bets? (ie. how much of villain’s range is elastic).

– what is the smallest bet that makes it hard to call with X hand? 

– what is the largest bet I can make to get paid by Y hand?

You don’t want to only consider those things, because different bet sizes will influence the villain’s perception of our range, and larger bets will sometimes get called by someone who was folding to a smaller bet. Your bet size can also influence how often you get raised. There’s a lot of other factors too, but those questions have helped me a lot over the years.

It’s also worth noting that, in theory, you can bluff more often as your bet size gets larger. The goal of a balanced betting strategy is to make the villain indifferent to calling. As their odds for calling get worse, villains can fold more often without being exploited. Again, not that relevant against the player pools in almost any online tournament.

2) I’m not going to go into much detail on this one, but this kind of spot comes up frequently. Late position player raises, both blinds call. Pretend you are in this exact situation (board texture, flop action, stack depths) 1000 times, but only your hand changes. If you were going to pick half of those hands to bet with and half of them to check, which half would 6heart6spadebelong in? What hands would always want to bet? What hands would you never bet? It’s really important to consider blockers for the hands you are choosing to bluff with.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking advantage of an opportunity regardless of your hand. If you know these opponents are playing fit or fold poker, you want to bluff very frequently after they show weakness. I don’t think Andrew was necessarily saying that you did anything wrong, he was offering questions you can ask yourself to develop a deeper understanding of the situation, and poker in general.

Maniackid11
Eating Fish
Balla
Members
Forum Posts: 316
Member Since:
November 28, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
September 10, 2018 - 5:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
This is spot on. I will be the first to admit I am extremely impulsive but I’m working on it.

I did miss the point. I’ll think deeper about this and consider everything more thoroughly. Thanks guys.

DuckinDaDeck
Hunting Max EV
Sunday Major
Members
Forum Posts: 284
Member Since:
February 8, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
September 10, 2018 - 5:44 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

For my first ten years playing poker, my middle name may as well have been ‘impulsive.’ Even when I turned pro, I still had a lot of “maybe I can get away with this here” and “I won’t let these fools run me over” type thoughts. Not that there isn’t a place for getting creative, and we do need to adjust if villains are overly aggressive, but I’ve finally mastered myself well enough (most days) to stick with my baseline strategy until I have a good reason to deviate. I’ll always be a little impulsive though, it’s part of what makes me love my job.

Maniackid11
Eating Fish
Balla
Members
Forum Posts: 316
Member Since:
November 28, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
September 10, 2018 - 10:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

That makes me feel a shit ton better, dude. Thank you. To be honest, I really didn’t know to even think about some of the stuff you had said. I’m glad I posted this hand. Thanks again! Looking forward to next week, for sure!

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
44 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Philbro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12007

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1