November 4, 2013
I have been curious about this in recent months, especially since playing more turbos.
Most of the time, both in written books and on what I've read online, the concept of a “reshove” stack, has been described mostly as around 20BB, or between 15 and 25BB, something like that. Then open/fold or shove stacks are said to be somewhere below the reshove stack, maybe immediately below it, and so on.
So, do these categories shift towards lower BB distinctions when we get to lower average stacks? I think that if all the stack types shifted in proportion with each other this would make sense – ie. if it became proper to min raise open instead of open shoving at smaller BB stacks too, and if 30+ BB play started to resemble more 25BB play, this would make sense.
But if for example open shove stacks do not change in BB size even in these low average BB situations, then I could see why the reshove stack would not change size either.
An example stack layout:
Hero (UTG+2): BB = 9.8, t117539
Laur414 (MP1): BB = 5.6, t67250
CARDBUD33 (MP2): BB = 11.0, t131672
chattanooga37412 (CO): BB = 5.5, t65738
Jurai01 (BTN): BB = 6.9, t82399
Mimmzy (SB): BB = 7.2, t85854
calicokid2 (BB): BB = 5.3, t63466
rcmkdx1 (UTG): BB = 5.1, t60970
cantwin80 (UTG+1): BB = 5.7, t68112
In this FT situation the big stack has 11 big blinds.
So I could see the answer being “everyone must open shove” but if the reality is that some players will still min raise, doesn't that also suggest that reshove FE exists at a lower BB stack here? If it folds around to Jurai01 on the button with 7BB and he decides to minraise open, (regardless of whether or not that is a mistake) can Mimmzy in the BB with also 7BB consider a reshove more often than on most other occasions when someone has only 7BB?
If the stacks in this situation are too low for the example to hold up, what if everyone had 5BB more, so that the chipleader had 16BB and the short stack had 10BB? Jurai min opens with 12BB and Mimmzy considers his option.
I feel that I have seen reshoves get folds with effective stacks of like 12BBs on a handful of occasions and I wonder if those are outliers or suggestive of shifting disctinctions between stack types.
Thanks for reading!
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
The reason why you shouldn't raise-fold a 7BB stack has nothing to do with the average stack. It's that once you raise to 2BB you are going to be getting such a good price to call a shove that you can't correctly fold anything. If you have opponents who will make the mistake of raise-folding with this stack, that's great and yes you have fold equity against them. I wouldn't count on a lot of it, but the thing is that you benefit even when you shove good hands. If you shove QQ and he folds A6o that's a great outcome for you, better than if he'd called since he was getting a good price to call.
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