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Discussion on Ed miller's article dynamic/static flops
folding_aces_pre_yo
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April 3, 2015 - 9:46 pm
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Hey, 

 

There's this article that ed miller wrote on dynamic/static flops, it's an aswome read. If you havent read it here's the link below.

…..op-texture

 

I agree with ed miller in what he's written though there's something which i really struggled to agree with.

 

This is what he wrote below….

 

9♠ 8♠ 5♥

This board is obviously very dynamic. A low high card, along with large numbers of available draws, mean that very few made hands are available on this board. This sort of flop is bad news for an out of position raiser, particularly if stacks are deep. You should check flops like these with most of your hands—even some overpairs.

When I recommend checking flops because they are dynamic, it certainly doesn’t mean you are just check-folding a ton. You are checking for two reasons. First, when you c-bet a lot you are vulnerable to getting raised and getting stacks into play on boards that are likely to change significantly on the turn and river. This has the potential to get you into too many sick spots. So you are keeping the average pot smaller in unfavorable situations.

Second, you check more hands so that your check-fold frequency can go down—in other words, you are checking a higher percentage of the hands that are worth continuing or bluffing with. So, after you start with a check, you should defend a lot of hands against an opponent’s flop bet.

 

 

he's saying that you should even check some overpairs on a flop of 9spade 8spade 5heart  , i must say i totally disagree with this , i mean by checking we're just giving our opponent a free card , there's so many hands we can get value from , for instance if we he had Kshd , my value target would be QQ , thats what i'd want my opponent to have , i'd also want to get value from any pair below qs, like JJ/TT , A9s, T9s, flush draws, straight draws like JT, KQs, there's just so much value in betting. though given that we have the Kspade, there's less chance of villian having many combos of spades , so maybe in that case checking can't be bad? but if we had KhKd , then i think there would be more merit in betting.

 

Miller goes on to say we check more hands so our c/f frequency goes down , he's right there's plenty of times were i've c/f flops like these, so by checking an overpair maybe it allows us to have a stronger c/c range , or c/r raise? like on the flop above, i think if we knew villian was going to bet a ton when checked too, c/r with an overpair would be decent play, though if we face 3-bet , we will likely have to call and re-evaluate on the turn, obv it depends how deep we are as well, it's not like we wanna be playing a 100bb pot with an overpair , were as if we're 30bb deep.

 

I just think that its important to undestand how different ranges of hands fit into our c/c c/r and c/f range , so with an overpair on this dynamic flop,  an overpair may very well go into our c/r or c/c range, KJs may go into our c/r range as well (for balance), AKo may go into our c/f range.

 

Ireally do think this is a great article that ed miller has written, would be intresting to find out your thoughts on this? what would your c/c c/f c/r be on this dynamic flop,  are u ever c/c an overpair here? if so which ones?

Foucault

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April 5, 2015 - 10:57 pm
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The more likely your opponent is to hold a hand like TT-QQ, the more value there is in betting the flop. Consider some of your other examples, though. Especially if you have KK without the spade, how much do you really gain by betting and getting called by JT? Sure you're an equity favorite, but you aren't going to realize anywhere near 100% of that equity. Are you check-folding a Q? A 6? What about a spade? Not to mention the fact that JT will probably bet if you check anyway.

One of the important properties of dynamic boards is that position is more valuable on them. So just like pre-flop, where you can't raise as many hands from UTG as you can from the button, you can't bet as many dynamic flops from OOP.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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April 5, 2015 - 11:24 pm
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Andrew, when you open from the CO with a wide range yeah and you get called by the button , this flop does his there button calling range pretty damm hard , though miller goes on to say this 
 
if you’d have known that the button was calling, you would have folded many of your weaker hands rather than opening them.
Because your range is weak for the situation, you should back off your continuation betting. Incidentally, this is a situation where many unsophisticated players wildly over-bet their range. 
 
What if we know that villian on the button calls often pre and folds a ton to cbets? does thing change things , even on a dymaic flop? I'm pretty sure it does, i think we still can bet 100% of our range even on dynmaics flops against players that just give up, we only need them to fold like 1/3 of the time for a 1/2 to be profitable!
 
Though i think miller is describing this villian to be somewhat of a good/strong player thats called from the button, that can pretty much make your life hell post flop
by floating or raising flops , putting you into tough spots.
 
 
 
Foucault

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April 5, 2015 - 11:41 pm
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Yes, the weaker and more predictable your opponent is in a variety of ways, including the one you describe, the better it is to just bet the flop. Ed is telling you how balance your play against a tough opponent. If your opponent is not tough and you can identify specific mistakes he is likely to make, then exploiting those mistakes will probably be more profitable.

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