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August 10, 2014
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Final table of an ACR $10 FO.
Villain has been opening a very wide range, and he and I have been sparring.
Should I ever be folding here? At what point do final table considerations negate preflop odds?
In past bvb situations villain has 1/2 pot cbet, and then checked it down.
My inclination was to flat, but is there a case for jamming?
Cheers mates.
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) – 6,000/12,000 NL – Holdem – 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
SB: 647,629 (VPIP: 41.55, PFR: 31.65, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 145)
Hero (BB): 141,588
CO: 180,871 (VPIP: 20.49, PFR: 7.73, 3Bet Preflop: 5.29, Hands: 416)
BTN: 439,912 (VPIP: 42.74, PFR: 38.02, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 126)
4 players post ante of 1,500, SB posts SB 6,000, Hero posts BB 12,000
Pre Flop: (pot: 24,000) Hero has 7
3
fold, fold, SB raises to 24,000, Hero calls 12,000
Flop: (54,000, 2 players) 7
5 A
SB bets 27,000, Hero
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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This is a thin call to begin with (though one I’d make absent ICM considerations). But once survival becomes important, all of your calls go down in value, so the thin ones become bad. Think about it this way: in order to realize your equity with this hand, you’re going to end up bluffing and bluff-catching post-flop (you basically never make a hand with easy decisions), and both of those things are undesirable in situations where you value survival highly.
Should you shove? This is pretty obviously not a good shove at equilibrium, so you’d have to have some reason to think V will raise-fold far too often. Do you?
August 10, 2014
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Foucault said
But once survival becomes important, all of your calls go down in value, so the thin ones become bad.
I’ve not been mindful enough of this, thank you.
Foucault said
Should you shove? This is pretty obviously not a good shove at equilibrium, so you’d have to have some reason to think V will raise-fold far too often. Do you?
If he is opening such a wide range, he should be folding a lot of flops?
On the other hand, I suppose he is rarely bet/folding here, considering we don’t have much fold equity against his relatively large sizing.
As you say, I’ll rarely have an easy decision post flop with this hand. I’ve flopped a pair and don’t know what to do. Folding pre sounds pretty good.
Final table lucidness at 2 in the morning after a long session is a skill unto itself! My earl grey wasn’t strong enough.
On another note, your willingness to give hand feedback on the forum is so valuable, and I’m not sure I’d retain a recurring membership otherwise. So, thank you!
February 20, 2015
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Indeed, Andrew provides a lot of value.
Do we have a video series on staying alert at the end of a session? By definition it’s when the most money should be at stake, and it will probably be when we are most tired. And because others are likely to be tired (checking country of V helps, but that assumes they keep normal hours as well), there are lots of opportunities that earl grey can help solve 🙂
I would have folded pre because I have 12 bigs unless I had evidence that V would fold to a shove. Even if he loses he has 40 bigs left, so I would be too worried about his calling with a wide range. To me it just depends on how good V is in these settings.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Thanks guys.
If he is opening such a wide range, he should be folding a lot of flops?
Even if he is opening any two cards, his range for seeing the flop will be stronger than your calling range if you include this in your calling range. In which case, why do you think you should win more flops than he will?
August 10, 2014
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Foucault said
Even if he is opening any two cards, his range for seeing the flop will be stronger than your calling range if you include this in your calling range. In which case, why do you think you should win more flops than he will?
Funny enough, I listened to Ep 80 of the podcast today. Kept rewinding during the discussion of the gap concept. I need to listen to it again post session.
I’d expect the answer to be position. With short stacks and his range being stronger, perhaps that isn’t as valuable as normal.
August 10, 2014
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Similar spot tonight. Perhaps a good contrast? Or maybe I haven’t learned a thing…
Turn spot was interesting.
PokerStars – $25+$2.50|10000/20000 Ante 2000.00 NL – Holdem – 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 267,608 (VPIP: 24.32, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 37)
SB: 311,558 (VPIP: 16.22, PFR: 13.89, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 37)
Hero (BB): 623,441
UTG: 528,318 (VPIP: 36.76, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 8.00, Hands: 69)
UTG+1: 413,798 (VPIP: 13.66, PFR: 11.41, 3Bet Preflop: 5.17, Hands: 162)
MP: 474,280 (VPIP: 11.96, PFR: 9.20, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 92)
CO: 290,997 (VPIP: 15.97, PFR: 11.30, 3Bet Preflop: 4.26, Hands: 121)
7 players post ante of 2,000, SB posts SB 10,000, Hero posts BB 20,000
Pre Flop: (pot: 44,000) Hero has K 6
fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 47,560, Hero calls 27,560
Flop: (109,120, 2 players) 6 4 J
SB bets 49,950, Hero calls 49,950
Turn: (209,020, 2 players) Q
SB checks, [color=red]Hero
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
Offline
Very easy check. Worse hands won’t call, few better hands will fold, you have showdown value, and you don’t have much to gain from protection. Without the Ks, I could see turning your hand into a bluff.
July 21, 2015
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I see a huge difference between defending 73o and K6o. I think I would probably fold the first and flat the second, maybe I could shove the K6o if I knew he is opening and folding too much.
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