December 30, 2015
Hi,
I’m curious what others think of these out-of-position strategies. I’m not talking about the occasional occurrence. I’m talking about people that run the same play from the same position, for a large percentage of orbits, for a noticeable (by me at least) period of time.
1. The other day I encountered someone doing something I haven’t seen before. Nearly every time V was in the big blind, heads-up against a button or cut-off open, V would call and then lead out on the flop with a roughly 65-75% bet. It kind of seemed like a counter move to how some players raise and c-bet every button. Again, I mean nearly every time for a number of orbits. This was in the middle stages of an MTT if that matters.
It seems bad, being out of position. Exploitable…but I’m not sure if it is any more exploitable than a constant button open and c-bet.
2. Last night in the final 18 of an MTT there was a very good player that was opening most of his UTG (usually 2xBB) and defending it really well, though this seems less passive and I guess technically he was just continuing in many cases. I also think he was good enough that he was exploiting a table flow that was working for him. I played back at him with my tight image, a 3-bet PF from the cut-off and re-raise post-flop (heads-up and texture seemed right) but I either picked the wrong time (he had it) or he just had more guts than I did (floated a big flop bet) and he owned me that hand.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
joelshitshow said
1) It’s only a bad decision to be exploitable if other people are exploiting you. Was V successful?2) Similar situation here. It’s a matter of reacting to table dynamics. Kudos to you for trying to play back. You may have just been unlucky when you took a stab.
Unless someone’s running hot, you can range a player relatively effectively no matter what they do. If they open most of their UTGs, you can treat it similar to a button opening most of theirs. The top 70% of their range is probably pretty similar in either case. The difference is UTG is taking an unnecessary risk because he has to get through more hands to take the pot down. It’s unlikely people will consistently treat repeated UTG opens with the same respect every orbit. Eventually people will take notice.
More like they don’t need to take notice. With eight people behind you, the odds of someone picking up a top 5% hand are pretty good, never mind that plenty of people won’t even think about folding a top 10% hand. Even without anyone actively playing back at you, opening wide UTG isn’t going to make money.
As for (1), you’re right that button raisers shouldn’t just blindly bet flops, but there are good reasons why it’s more profitable for them to do that than for the player who called from the BB. Think about which player has the stronger range.
December 30, 2015
Thanks Joel.
Both Vs were quite successful for a time. For #1 perhaps because it was fairly early stages of a large field $3.30 tournament and if he was consciously doing it to counter the button and cutoff players because they were playing mechanically and too consistently then I have to give him credit for creativity. It seemed to work quite well for awhile. I’ve seen people do something similar from the SB by calling and min-betting the flop. I don’t really like it though.
That is what I was thinking. Andrew I really like your mantra-like message of “keep it simple, just do what is profitable”. I hope you don’t mind me paraphrasing your replies to me after a few weeks as a member ;). Much of it is sticking.
I’m not thinking about doing any of this by the way. Just sharing some interesting patterns I saw.
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