Home
(0 votes) 
November 28, 2013
Offline
Later in tournaments i have found a lot of people making huge preflop raises and i am unsure how to proceed in these spots. For instance, last night a villian was rountintely raising to 2600 when the blinds were 300-600, and when they were 750-1500 he raised to 4800 and then the next hand raised to 6000 with the same blinds.
I struggle with what to do against these plays, so unless i have a monster, i find myself folding pre almost all the time.
I was about 4 seats left of this villian and i know one hand i had aj and ended up folding it. In the scenario last night, villian had 103k and was in mid position, i was on the button with about 28k with blinds being 300-600. Villian raised it up to 2600 and it folded around to me. I don't like any of my options here.
First off when i try to range him, in my opinion i feel like his range is a10+, (maybe a9 suited) and most pocket pairs, maybe all. Therefore im flipping with a lot of his hands, and way behind some, im really only ahead of a10 and a9. I have been trying to write down whenever these players are forced to show these hands and i note them all, in order to help me range them. I mostly see them turn over aj, aq and jj in these spots but most of the time i dont get to see it because it doesnt go to showdown. I dont know if they do it with kk and aa because i feel like no one is calling a ton especially since they have the cards people would call with. I also notice that when someone does call pre, villian usually bet 3/4 or pot on the flop no matter what and try and blast them off a hand.
Option 1- calling- i think this is the worst option because if an A i am gonna end up playing for my stack when i am way behind a lot. When a jack hits, do i want to play for my stack with aj?
Option 2- raising- when he raises to 4.5x, now when i want to reraise, i am putting a significant number of chips in the pot, which, with aj i dont love doing. I hate it actually. Side note– 3 betting light is almost out of the question because i have yet to see them do it light so if i three bet, i think i get shoved on a ton.
Option 3- folding- this is what i end up doing a lot and i hate it but i dont know what else to do.
Ideas on the right play? I have this problem with a10s, aj, aq, 99, 88, 77. I think ak im reraising or shoving, and 10s or higher i dont think im folding. Thoughts on that range and on how to play against this move.
November 4, 2013
Offline
Buy in level of this tournament is somewhat needed info. Also the site… I seen this when I played in the micro's on Stars, but never in a tournament any bigger than 11$.
At one point a 4x open was considered within the realm of standard. So it's entirely possible this player is really old school and hasn't adapted to the new raises. It's also possible he's building bigger pots because he knows the majority of players today are uncomfortable calling 4x raises pre. It creates pot sizes people aren't accustomed to playing anymore.
When faced with players like this, I would generally avoid playing hands like AJ, mostly because when you hit either card, you still can't love your hand. You are then in a pot which is “bloated” and you are not fully comfortable playing it at this size. The other option is to consider it a 3b pot, which is somewhat close to what it would be if he was opening 6x or 7x.
For the range question you posed at the bottom, since this is his standard sizing for opens, dependant on what his open % is, I'm probably including hands like 77-99 when I'm in position. There are times I'm shoving those hands, times I'm 3 bet calling, and times when I'm folding. It will largely depend on what's left to happen behind me. I'm guessing no one was really trying to sheriff him, and that's why he kept doing this.
The most important thing you can do here, which is most often the most overlooked… take notes. Make sure you are noting what the bottom of his range ends up being when you do see a showdown, and make absolutely sure you have a note saying his standard open is 4x+.
March 8, 2013
Offline
I agree with OneTime that knowing the details about the specific opponent is key, but I want to add a bit.
If you are against an unknown and this is his first raise, you can't assume much, but it is theoretically optimal to fold more often to these raises than a smaller raise. Shift your 3-bet for value, call, and 3-bet light ranges all up a small amount.
November 28, 2013
Offline
The tournament im talking about is an $11 on merge, and it is not just one player. I play in that tournament frequently and i see it happen all the time. I do write notes whenever they are forced to show but it seems like for the most part folding is the play. thoughts on aq?
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Offline
There are a few things to bear in mind here. In fact, there are two main dynamics at play:
1. Does the villain raise big with his whole range? Just the stronger parts? Just the weaker parts? If you have seen some showdowns or simply see the villain doing the same thing all the time, you can make inferences here. If you see him minraising sometimes and 4xing others, it's generally a good idea to start out by assuming that the bigger the raise, the stronger the hand, unless otherwise indicated. Act accordingly. If you see him raising bigger with weaker hands, be more inclined to 3bet bluff him.
2. The bigger raise sizing means you should be less inclined to call preflop (worse direct odds, much worse implied odds, lower stack-to-pot ratio), and more inclined to 3bet bluff, perhaps with some hands you might have ordinarily called with (more in pot, therefore the bluff is even more profitable if he's folding the same frequencies – bear in mind that this is higher variance because your 3bet sizing will be bigger and will risk more of your stack in each instance). You should also consider 3bet/folding some stronger hands than you might usually, since the kinds of players who open to 4x usually have very, very tight 4betting ranges.
Hope that helps!
February 2, 2013
Offline
I learned a lot from the answers above.
However i was wondering would it be a correct play to raise 3x in the later stages of a tourney.
I see a lot of people on TPE advising reducing your pre flop raise size when the antes come in.
Surely when the antes come in and you 2x or 2.2x pre, you are giving very good odds for the big blind to call.
I know from the amateur live games that i play in and online to a lesser degree that a lot of players in the big blind just can’t turn down the odds that they are been offered. If the pre flop min raiser is not a skilled post flop player, well then he can be in a world of pain when the betting gets heavy as he has no idea what the big blind could be holding.
I think the min raise has got too popular. I use it myself as it doesn’t cost me as many chips as a 3x.
June 1, 2012
Offline
Having weaker players than yourself defend wide from the blinds is a great thing you have position for god sakes..
On topic, this is a problem i have encountered myself and i am really puzzled on what to do also and there range for doing this is pretty nebulous. When i have shoved over this with say AJ they end up turning over QQs+AQ against me just my run bad i guess. Against complete unknowns bearing no reads the only good play i can think of is to play pretty solidly i think 3 bet bluffing these players is out of the question. However, if the players in question show a tendency to make this play consistently i would start to widen my 3bet value range against these players and jamming most flops with my entire range.
On a side note, i also think 3 betting light in MTTs has been made redundant these days because peoples playback frequency myself included is extremely high and people just don’t put up with it its a leak in my game i know. Even the most passive players will only take so much till start to fight back. You need a reason to 3bet someone light and it quiet simply should be they fold to many 3bets. 3betting someone who is playing 37vpip 67ss bearing no reads on how they respond is not going to go down well and is just lighting money on fire.
Most Users Ever Online: 2780
Currently Online:
40 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
bennymacca: 2616
Foucault: 2067
folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133
praetor: 1033
theginger45: 924
P-aire 146: 832
Turbulence: 768
The Riceman: 731
duggs: 591
florianm1: 588
Newest Members:
Tillery999
sdmathis89
ne0x00
adrianvaida2525
Anteeater
Laggro
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 24
Topics: 12705
Posts: 75003
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1063
Members: 12008
Moderators: 2
Admins: 5
Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos
Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1
