I'm with SittingDucks on this, 3bet folding with a 20BB stack has to be bad (especially as you're definitely priced in to call – you need to have 29%, 2.44:1 in this example) so if I'm going to play this hand I'm just shoving!

Tks for the quality replies guys.

Played it as you guys stated but unfortunately my timing was ill advised ! (ran into the monster ttwist saw.) My Jd8d flush was beaten by villians QxQd flush. So basically was playing the initial raiser and hoping for no action behind.

Cheers,

Kev

for everyone saying we have to call the cold 4-bet, why?

i see a lot of people saying we're committed and that 3b/folding a 20BB stack is bad (which it is generally speaking), but this is a particular situation that can be answered by a fairly simple math problem.

for those saying we have to call, what range are you giving the cold 4bettor? what equity do we need against that range to breakeven? do we have the required equity to make this call?

first person to use some math and ranges in this thread to answer those questions gets a 50/50 stake in next weeks Sunday Quarter Million.

–equity to make call=100*1/(pot/amt to call)+1

100*1/(700+1400+1575+2800+8400+27302/18902)+1

100*1/(42177/18902)+1

100*1/(2.231)+1

100/3.231 = 30.95%

against JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ we have 29.976%

and if we give him a smaller range (i did a lil bigger first cuz its a 3$ tourny)

against QQ+,AKs, AKo we have 27.732%

so not enough equity to call against these ranges, also what do you think about the ranges i used?

BigB23 said:

–equity to make call=100*1/(pot/amt to call)+1

100*1/(700+1400+1575+2800+8400+27302/18902)+1

100*1/(42177/18902)+1

100*1/(2.231)+1

100/3.231 = 30.95%

 

against JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ we have 29.976%

and if we give him a smaller range (i did a lil bigger first cuz its a 3$ tourny)

 

against QQ+,AKs, AKo we have 27.732%

so not enough equity to call against these ranges, also what do you think about the ranges i used?

nicely done.

i think your ranges are fine, more or less. the fact is that this is a fold against 88+, AJs+, AQo+, which is, imo, way wider than we're going to see here.

i think something like TT+, AK, although i could be convinced that villain doesn't fold AQ/99.

fwiw, this stuff is not the most fun to do, but the more you do it the easier it becomes. and more importantly, this is the meat of this game. get comfortable with doing calcs like this and understanding equity and ranging people and it's only a matter of time before you reach crush city.

also, this is a great example of how important it is to think about what hands we want to choose to balance our resteal range. Just take a standard value range of 99+, AQ+ and see how differently J8s plays against it than T9s or JTs or A5s or 55.

if you don't want to wait until september to play the $33 miniFTOPS event, i have no problem doing like an 80/20 split on the Sunday Quarter Million ($11) or the FTP Double Deuce ($22). just let me know.