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deep in $5 fo with JJ
jasonberg
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April 13, 2011 - 3:50 pm
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I was new at the table, so
I had no stats (really bad in this spotfrown)

It was tough to put villain on a range.

I thought about checking the turn, would that be better?

I hated the river, but the pot was huge. When I check the river, and he shoves I have to call anyway, right?

And imo he could sometimes fold QQ and KK?!

What would be the best line?

 

Full Tilt Poker $7,500 KO Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t3000/t6000 Blinds + t750 – 8 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

zigOo_x (CO): BB = 24.6, t147711
wkl1983 (BTN): BB = 25.6, t153781
tzaracainele (SB): BB = 63.6, t381847
JaytheHippy (BB): BB = 38.4, t230213
xjason_bergx (UTG): BB = 49.4, t296534
bibiloica (UTG+1): BB = 43.6, t261783
flaamer (MP1): BB = 37.1, t222526
andy worth (MP2): BB = 42.4, t254234

Pre Flop: (t15000) xjason_bergx is UTG with J of clubs J of diamonds
xjason_bergx raises to t12500, 1 fold, flaamer calls t12500, 2 folds, wkl1983 calls t12500, 1 fold, JaytheHippy calls t6500

Flop: (t59000) T of clubs 4 of clubs 2 of clubs (4 players)
JaytheHippy checks, xjason_bergx bets t38500, flaamer calls t38500, wkl1983 folds, JaytheHippy folds

Turn: (t136000) 9 of hearts (2 players)
xjason_bergx bets t78500, flaamer calls t78500

River: (t293000) A of hearts (2 players)
xjason_bergx bets t166284 all in, flaamer calls t92276 all in

Final Pot: t477552
xjason_bergx shows J of clubs J of diamonds (a pair of Jacks)
flaamer shows A of clubs A of diamonds (three of a kind, Aces)
flaamer wins t477552

bennymacca
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April 13, 2011 - 8:50 pm
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that is pretty sick the way villain just flats every chance he gets with AA

 

i like the way you played it up until the river, but that is about the worst card in the deck for you, as just about every single flush draw hand contains an ace – either AcXx or Kc or Qc with an ace. AT also beats you now. 

 

unfortunately i would probably check fold the river, which sucks because you have put half your stack in, but i doubt villain ever bets worse on the river and will check behind a lot so you can hopefully see a showdown. 

KingBustYou
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April 14, 2011 - 10:57 am
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i'd bet smaller on the flop and turn for pot controll. someone could've been slowplaying a flopped flush or a set scared of a flush. Bet about 1/2 pot and you would've saved urself about 30k leaving urself 195k instead of 166k. Unless villain has an ace he's checking back the river for showdown value if he has something like K10, Q10, J10 or maybe even QQ scared of KK, AA from an utg raiser. Or small/mid pairs that put you on AJ+. 

So like Benny said, there are a lot of hands w the ace of clubs in villain's range, although I dont see anyone calling a big bet on the turn w just the nut fd, but in the microstakes players are that bad to do so. And if ur betting almost 1/2 ur stack on the turn u might as well have shoved the turn imo. KQo, KJo, QJo w a club couldve also been in villains range for a gutter and fd that missed.

So I'm starting to think that there are some bluffs in villains range as well, but I think those hands wouldve giving up after the turn in most cases. So not really sure which hands would bluff the river. There's definitely no point in shoving the river for value or getting villain off from a worse hand.

If you checked the river and villain shoves ur getting almost 4-1 on a call making it possibly a profitable call if villain were to bluff here often. Giving the pot size and villains remaining stack it def gives villain a big reason to (bluff)shove river.

By shoving the river the only hands that would fold w showdownvalue are QQ, 55-88 and a ten (unless A10). So i'd go for pot controll first and checking the river and contemplating calling of over 1/2 ur stack, as mentioned if you'd only bet 1/2 pot twice, you'd have 195k left and villain 130k, so you'd had to call off 2/3 ur stack w a bluffcatcher. This would've made it easier to c/f river and still leave you w 30bb to play with. So my answer is probably pot controll.

As played i would c/c river for pot odds seeing there are some bluffs in villains range, but not a lot since villain called two big bets for over half his stack. Seeing villain only had 1.5 pot sizebet left after the flop, ur ultimate decision shouldve been on the turn, either c/c, c/f (dont really see this happening) or just shoving the river for protection/value from (combo)draws. Or just checking turn for pot controll and reassess.

Lol, getting confused my self. Like to hear some more opinions. TPE pros, where are u?

 

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Killingbird
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April 14, 2011 - 1:19 pm
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I agree that you can bet smaller on flop and turn and then sadly probably have to check fold river.

a10fouru
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April 14, 2011 - 1:54 pm
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Crazy hand. Flatting pre in the BB wiht so many callers. I like the line you took. You could have bet smaller…but I'm not too picky about it. But the river is a def check/fold. YOu're already trying to convince him that you have a high flush when he is calling all streets.

 

Let's suppose he has the AclubTx in his hand, which is what I would have put him on, that river should kill us. I think YOu're just getting very few folds if he has come along this far. What hands can he have that he is calling through the turn and folding on the river? Maybe the KK or QQ? That's a big maybe. FOr me, too much of a maybe to pull this risky of a move….especially readless…and that is the biggest factor.

 

 

terbet11
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April 14, 2011 - 4:01 pm
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I am in agreement with most in the fact that I am betting smaller on flop and turn to control pot, and on river i am going to be c/folding.  When you jam river you are only getting called with worse.  Best of luck at the tables.

SeeYourSoul
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April 14, 2011 - 4:16 pm
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What do you guys think of overbet/shoving turn?

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