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Could play KK different?
Wappie
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November 10, 2014 - 4:05 am
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Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t25/t50 Blinds –

 

9 players – View hand 2606884
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

AAtime777 (UTG): t5785 115.70 BBs
annodv (UTG+1): t5555 111.10 BBs
fiksa81 (UTG+2): t4270 85.40 BBs
lHaveNothing (MP1): t10879 217.58 BBs
stomec (MP2): t4150 83 BBs
al51845 (CO): t8823 176.46 BBs
Hero (BTN): t4030 80.60 BBs
poker_pro661 (SB): t6328 126.56 BBs
xpooky (BB): t5590 111.80 BBs

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BTN with K of spades K of clubs
3 folds, lHaveNothing calls t50, 1 fold, al51845 raises to t150, Hero raises to t575, 1 fold, xpooky raises to t1000, 1 fold, al51845 calls t850, Hero raises to t4030 all in, xpooky raises to t5590 all in, 1 fold

Flop: (t9135) Q of clubs J of hearts A of hearts (2 players – 2 are all in)

Turn: (t9135) Q of diamonds (2 players – 2 are all in)

River: (t9135) 6 of clubs (2 players – 2 are all in)

 

Okay, if the CO did not flat the 4b I probably would flat the 4b, now I jam cause I did not want to go with 3 people see a flop(if I did flat then it would be an easy fold on the flop, and even more with 2 opponents)

 

The cold 4bet from the BB smells like AA,KK,AK, Were I have 47% if we go all-inn.

 

Normally this deep I would flat this 4b vs a single opponent and evaluate the flop and make my decision.

 

 Could I have this done different or is my thinking correct?

 

Should I take these 47/53 spots this deep, pre?

theginger45

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November 10, 2014 - 6:04 am
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Yes, you should take those spots. His range is probably very tight, you're right, but a lot of $11 villains are doing this with QQ as well.

Don't think of it as a 47/53 spot. There is 2700 in the pot before you make your shove. That has a massive impact on the equity you need in order to make this shove, so you don't need to be ahead of the villain's range in order to get it in.

I ran this hand through SliceEV's fold equity calculator and if his range is QQ+ and AK and he always calls it off, you make 2122.73 chips getting it in here. That's 40 big blinds. If his range is KK+ and AK, you make 1047.54 chips – 20 big blinds. If he ever does this with AK and then folds to your shove, which some villains will do, then that number only goes up, and if there's a slight chance that the overcaller decides to gamble it up with JJ or AK or something (which again, some $11 villains will do) then the number shoots up even more. Only once his range becomes exactly KK+ does it become -EV to get it in.

Don't overthink it. You have KK and 80bb. You need an extremely good read to fold here. Calling the 4bet doesn't make a huge amount of sense unless you thought his range was wider and were trying to trap, because if you're calling the 4bet for the reason that his range was too strong to get it in, then you're just going to end up stacking up on 90+% of flops anyway, because if he does have AA very often then there's rarely going to be an A high flop or any other flop that you can fold with stack sizes being as they are, and if you're folding a bunch of flops then you're basically just setmining with KK in a spot with terrible stack to pot ratios.

It's not a fistpump shove because his range definitely is tight, but you can't do anything but shove here. It's just a cooler.

Wappie
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November 10, 2014 - 12:44 pm
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Thank you for your time and information.

 

Makes sence to me

DannyN13

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November 13, 2014 - 10:08 pm
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The fact you are 3betting the *button* here with your sizing makes it a snap shove. He is giving you way less credit in this particular spot than any other. In an $11 online tournament there is no other option than to flick this in. Live it may be different. If he has AA fire up a new one! GL!

MovesLikeDarvin

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November 14, 2014 - 2:50 pm
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allow me to be the third to say you need to be getting this in, especially after putting 575 in pre. making it this big and folding KK is always a crime. ginger's sliceEV analysis shows you just how much you're making. just unlucky if you ran into huge hand

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