April 17, 2016
Hello, I’m not sure if I played this hand poorly or I just had a bit of a bad beat, I was assuming he had maybe a JA or two pair Jack, the river was kind of a death trap. Any advice appreciated, thanks.
It looked good to me. I was debating raising the turn, but I think you get him to call or reraise you with all the hands that have you beat, and he folds the hands you have beaten. I like the raise on the river. I was thinking about raising less on the river to try and get value from just a pair of Jacks …
But yes, this was a cooler. Unless you have notes on this guy that says when he bets 1/3 pot on all 3 streets that means he has an overpair, you can’t fold anywhere along the way. I like it. Well played.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
I agree with Ballet that the river shove is thinner than it may seem, but I like it nonetheless. I don’t think a K on the river really affects the value of AJ all that much (except in rare cases like this) and Villain only has about a PSB behind. If you really think V will fold all hands worse than two pair to a river shove, then this would be a very good spot to turn a small pair into a bluff (and maybe it is, just something to think about).
I think the central problem for HTL is the assumption that he should have done something differently. Just because you lost a big pot (and, as it turns out, were way behind the whole way) doesn’t mean you made a mistake. That’s just something that happens in poker sometimes.
Back to BalletBoi, I can’t see doing anything other than calling with this pre-flop. I just read a good post you made in another thread about how you just to make the most +EV decision at every opportunity, which is exactly the right mindset to have. I don’t think you can square that with the logic of “You can easily afford to play tighter when you’re 50 big blinds or so”. What you’re really saying here is because you have a lot of chips, why not just give some away?
I have a series on TPE about playing “Wide Range Situations” you should check out. The bottom line is you can’t play a blind vs blind spot the same way you would vs an UTG raise and say “K7 easily dominated better not play it!”.
December 30, 2015
I was going to ask what hands you are targeting for value with a river shove but you allude to this in your original post: AJ, Jx-two-pair. That seems a bit high to me. I wouldn’t expect any hands that we beat to call our shove except hero-non-believers. …but that is the problem with shoving. It takes away V’s ability to make a mistake with the kind of hands we want to call. It makes V’s decision easier. Call or fold. I’d probably just raise to around 960.
If we raise the river to 960 and V shoves….
My initial reaction is I would call because our hand looks like a missed-flush-draw-bluff and is under-represented. After thinking about it I wonder if that is a mistake… What hand shoves over the top in this spot? J-high doesn’t. Even two-pair would be iffy to shove. It can go on for a few levels…like, why would V shove if he thinks we are bluffing the river and only better would call (ignoring the results that he made trips there…I’m talking through this using your assumed range of AJ or Jx-two-pair).
I think raise/fold may be the correct river action? What do you think?
December 30, 2015
Oh wow I didn’t notice this was a hyper. I’m really interested to know how this might change play for people…knowing our stack is losing value so fast. This looks like a nice deep starting stack, so maybe we can play this hand out normally, but with a SB min-raise and the way the action went down I’m probably going with this river too. How many two-pairs are we going to see (or rivers for that matter) before the game becomes shove/fold?
A few minutes in to a hyper the field is full of people doing some mind-bending things. I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see QJ or AJ call off here.
almofadinhas said
MovieFX said
I think raise/fold may be the correct river action? What do you think?I don´t think is good, if i have made the math right, if V 3bet shove you have to pay 850 on 3850pot… I think I did something wrong here lol… assuming 960 on reraise.
How does math help you here with no cards to come? Math won’t give you a hand that beats V 😉
December 30, 2015
almofadinhas said
I will fell comited here , not raise to fold then.
Why?
I’m sort of being facetious here to make a point. You mentioned math as a way to feel less committed but math doesn’t have feelings. I’ve folded with very little left (something like 6BB) in my stack because I felt like I couldn’t win and with a few chips I still have a chance. I could have tossed my last few in, but why? In an extreme, even getting 100:1, if I can’t possibly be winning, there is no math that will make me give up on my tournament life. I actually ran that stack back up over 60BB (I posted the hand in real-time here not too long ago: …..-the-river )
Also …..-the-hand/
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