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Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (2 votes) 
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Cooler?
TightlyWound
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October 15, 2018 - 9:40 pm
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So initially I thought this was bad play on my part.  My friend who plays $5/$10 and is an excellent player thought it was simply a cooler.  Honestly not sure now.  Blinds 150/300, starting stack of 30k and I have 60ish.  Folds to me on the button and I have 66.  I raise it to 1100 and it is my 3rd button raise in a row.  Sb folds, bb makes it 3300.  He seems to be a competent player and I think his range is quite wide and could be simply be playing back at me.  I 4 bet to 8300, he tanks and then jams for 26.5k (18k more).  I tank and eventually convince myself to call.  He turns over KK.  Is this a clear fold?

3for3
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October 16, 2018 - 12:56 am
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Clear fold.  Not even a 4 bet.  Just flat pre and take it from there.  If for some reason you want to 4bet, this is just an easy fold to his jam.  

rppoker
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October 16, 2018 - 3:03 am
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A cooler would be if you had QQ vs KK. Your 66 is not a cooler. Your 66 was a reasonable raise into an unopened pot on the button. When villain re-raises you — even though you have raised button three times in a row — even if he is doing so light he still either has you dominated (higher pair) or you are flipping (two overcards). I suppose you can just call and see if you hit a set or if the flop is devoid of broadway cards you can decide how you want to proceed post flop. The four bet is a case where you have turned your hand into a bluff. I think four betting with 66 is way too aggressive. And when villain five bets/jams it is absolutely a fold for you. There is now a flashing neon sign over his head that says kings or aces (I don’t see him taking this line with AK). You say he is a competent player so I don’t see him spazzing out with a five-bet jam as a stone cold punt, and even if that is the case you still aren’t in ideal shape against whatever it is you think he has.

About the only situation where I could remotely make the argument for going to war like you did was the situation I saw the other night during Killingbird’s twitch stream. There was a player at his table who was literally raising 100% of hands whether he had a hand (rarely) or not (usually). This player had a huge stack because he kept sucking out against better hands. I think Killingbird got it in good preflop with something like KJ, which against any other player would have been a fold but against this player figured to be way ahead. Killingbird was in fact way in front of villain, but villain binked the flop (or maybe the turn) and won the hand. The point was, I think your opponent would have had to be this kind of a lunatic for it to make sense for you to four-bet raise and five-bet call an all-in with your pair of sixes.

ScotFish
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October 16, 2018 - 5:41 am
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Yeah, I have to agree that this is a fold pre, as even if he has a 5 bet bluffing range (which few villains will unless you are at a high level) you are unlikely to be better than flipping. A huge amount of profitability comes from having part of an opponents range dominated, as opposed to ranges where you are either flipping or crushed. 

If he has 26k pre and re-raises to 3300 you are borderline given the pot odds to call and set mine, especially if you think there is a high chance he’ll get it all in post flop if you hit, but beyond this you can essentially be done with the hand. If you are looking for light 4 bets on the off-chance he’s playing back at you because of previously shown aggression I would recommend hands such as suited wheel aces, or maybe KTs type hands, as the blockers you have make it much less likely that he has as big a hand as he did! 

TightlyWound
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October 16, 2018 - 8:10 am
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Yes of course I am turning 66 into a bluff when I four bet it RP. I do agree though Scot that there are better options to 4 bet with for balancing purposes. My friend plays with only the local pros so I think his perceptions are skewed at times due to the fact that his opponents are typically high level, creative players.  I just don’t think it is typical to face too many opponents in $185 live tourneys that are capable of 5 bet bluffing.

Foucault

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October 16, 2018 - 11:15 am
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Your friend thinks that once it folds to you with 66 on the Button, 90+bbs are just going to have to go into the pot? Disagree.

TightlyWound
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October 16, 2018 - 2:42 pm
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You won’t get an argument from me. When he first said it I asked him if he was joking.  He said he wasn’t but I never truly know with him lol.

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Killingbird
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October 18, 2018 - 4:15 pm
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rppoker said

About the only situation where I could remotely make the argument for going to war like you did was the situation I saw the other night during Killingbird’s twitch stream. There was a player at his table who was literally raising 100% of hands whether he had a hand (rarely) or not (usually). This player had a huge stack because he kept sucking out against better hands. I think Killingbird got it in good preflop with something like KJ, which against any other player would have been a fold but against this player figured to be way ahead. Killingbird was in fact way in front of villain, but villain binked the flop (or maybe the turn) and won the hand. The point was, I think your opponent would have had to be this kind of a lunatic for it to make sense for you to four-bet raise and five-bet call an all-in with your pair of sixes.  

Sadly, I recall this hand all too well!  haha

DuckinDaDeck
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October 19, 2018 - 11:35 am
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I like having a 4bet bluffing range but you should never 4bet if there’s any question about how to play against a 5bet. Every hand in your range should know how to react facing a shove – before you 4bet. The only exception that I can think of is you are very deep and the 5bet is unexpectedly large, or I guess if you pick up a strong tell between your 4bet and the shove. Otherwise, you’re delaying the most important decision until you are facing the maximum pressure your opponent can apply, which presumably is when you are most likely to make a mistake.

FWIW, I think small pocket pairs are among the worst hands for 4bet bluffing. You’re deep enough to take a flop in position, so why not make a profitable call rather than a questionable bluff? Even if you prefer playing 66 as a 4bet or fold, I think folding is much better. You have no blockers to villain’s GII range, and will rarely have an easy time navigating the hand unless villain (or you) folds pre-flop.

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