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November 28, 2015
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Here is a hint: The best way to figure this one out is from the perspective of not knowing anything about any of our villains…
WPN, 20/40 blinds No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
Hero (SB): 4,238 (106 bb)
BB: 1,455 (36.4 bb)
UTG+1: 3,900 (97.5 bb)
UTG+2: 435 (10.9 bb)
MP1: 1,355 (33.9 bb)
MP2: 1,297 (32.4 bb)
MP3: 1,620 (40.5 bb)
CO: 1,125 (28.1 bb)
BTN: 1,450 (36.3 bb)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 3 3
UTG+1 raises to 80, UTG+2 calls 80, 2 folds, MP3 calls 80, CO calls 80, BTN raises to 120, Hero raises to 750, BB folds, UTG+1 calls 670, UTG+2 folds, MP3 raises to 1,620 and is all-in, CO folds, BTN calls 1,330 and is all-in, Hero raises to 4,238 and is all-in, UTG+1 calls 3,150 and is all-in
Flop: (11,070) A A J (4 players, 4 are all-in)
Turn: (11,070) 7 (4 players, 4 are all-in)
River: (11,070) 6 (4 players, 4 are all-in)
Results: 11,070 pot
Final Board: A A J 7 6
Hero showed 3 3 and lost (-3,900 net)
UTG+1 showed A 3 and won 5,070 (1,170 net)
MP3 showed 9 9 and lost (-1,620 net)
BTN showed 8 A and won 6,000 (4,550 net)
And Brokos, you are not allowed to respond to this one 
February 5, 2015
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Im just flatting here looking to set mine. Obviously UG1 might blow us off our hand, but Im not 4betting 33 here after so much interest has been shown by the other players.
I would consider every V except UG1 and BTN as dead money. By raising, you are forcing MP3 to shove with his holding if UG1 calls, and this is defensible for MP3 imo given the pot odds he is getting and the fact UG1 has capped his range by calling your 4bet.
With so much action before you, 4betting 33 here is a mistake imo…unless you think these guys are super loose.
Imo BTN made the second largest error by 3betting A8o pre, then compounded his error by staying in the hand after all the interest. Despite the odds he’s getting, there is no way he can be ahead here.
Honestly though Mkid, I feel you made the largest error by setting up all this madness by 4betting your 33…and the loons all freaked out behind following your Pied Piper style lead.
Out of interest why dont you want Andrew to reply lol? I know you’re having fun…but never shut Andrew out of any discussion…imo his input to TPE forums is worth the price of the whole sub. Him and Ginger45. They have a commercial interest of course, because they garner business through their exposure…but their value is incalculable.
November 28, 2015
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Haha Riceman I agree. I actually value Andrews input tremendously because he will be able to pinpoint everything with precision accuracy. So maybe I didn’t mean “not allowed” I just wanted to see what everyone else thought first.
November 28, 2015
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Crap. I guess it’s worth mentioning that this is a Freeroll.
February 5, 2015
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Still not 4betting 33…But yeah it does matter that its a freeroll imo.
I dont buy it when people say that you should play every T the same. I disagree. Ideally we’d all have large enough rolls that we wouldnt have to think about the money at all, and could play unaffected poker, but for most everyone the stakes they are playing are significant…theres no way Id play a $10 T in the same mindset as even a $100 T.
But 4betting 33 here is just a mistake imo, whatever stakes youre playing…hell, Im not 4betting 33 even if someone is paying me to play!
November 28, 2015
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I dont like my 4-bet sizing, I should have made it bigger.
November 28, 2015
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33 has roughly 64% equity against A3s, 50-53% equity against A8o and 47% equity against both of them together.
99 obviously crushes 33 and changes everything. So I don’t hate my 4-bet, just think it needed to be bigger, that way, when I do call the allins I have an even better price than barely break even.
February 5, 2015
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Sure…thats the equity against their specific hands…but against their range its a different story. The button, specifically, had no business being in the hand, especially not continuing so far in the hand.
Put it this way: what are you trying to achieve with the 4bet?
November 28, 2015
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Against all 3 players ranges we have something like 21% equity. which makes my 4-bet profitable in the long run.
February 5, 2015
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I haven’t looked at it in an equity calculator…
The beautiful thing about poker, and the reason a whole industry has grown up around this fantastic game which we are all obsessed with…is that there are no right and wrong answers when it comes to how you play and construct your ranges. There are mathematical mistakes, sure, but how you choose to play, to use this example, 33 here is very different to how I’d play it.
I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong to have 4bet it, and if you’ve run it thru a calculator then hey! Maybe its me who is wrong!
Genuinely, I am interested in what you hoped the 4bet of 33 would achieve here…I might learn something!
November 28, 2015
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I’m glad you asked. Because this is a freeroll, I have no stats on these particular villains which means they are relatively new or whatever. and I do have significant stats on some of the freeroll regs that I play against. Against those villains, I would never open 3s from any early position. I would 4bet them here, and if I made my 4bet size correctly (I forgot to factor in the 2 limpers) I would see folds more often. But, knowing I don’t know anyone, I auto assume they play goofy hands like A3 suited from UTG and what not. I’m not saying it’s not profitable to play that hand from UTG I just don’t like how that villain played it nor would I myself play that hand there. And because I am playing against villains who I perceive as being beginners, I know that one of the biggest mistakes I made when I first started playing was playing too wide from EP.
I was trying to ISO by 4-betting allowing my self to be able to call off a shove by one of the players that I thought might be playing too wide. Unfortunately, I ran into 99 and a shit show. Oh well.
Also, I am glad you pointed out the 33 4-bet because I was able to see my sizing mistake. And that’s ok if you don’t play 3s here. I don’t disagree with your reasoning. I am not always playing them here either.
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