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Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy Can we fold pre flop here? is flatt…

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Can we fold pre flop here? is flatting the right option?

Buttmunch16

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September 25, 2011 - 3:35 pm

Does the min 3bet scream KK or AA or is his range wider? is there any part of the hand I can get away or is it just a cooler?

*********** # 45 **************
PokerStars Game #68042351099: Tournament #539010003, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2011/09/25 14:39:02 ET
Table '539010003 1416' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Neo112888 (7990 in chips) 
Seat 2: Buttmunch16 (6611 in chips) 
Seat 3: HyänenPoker (2025 in chips) 
Seat 4: Dindi_the2nd (3450 in chips) 
Seat 5: ANIBAL425 (5824 in chips) 
Seat 6: King_Stig (6120 in chips) 
Seat 7: TheRaccooner (5000 in chips) 
Seat 8: gräber67 (10037 in chips) 
Seat 9: Waldcda $ (7093 in chips) 
Neo112888: posts the ante 20
Buttmunch16: posts the ante 20
HyänenPoker: posts the ante 20
Dindi_the2nd: posts the ante 20
ANIBAL425: posts the ante 20
King_Stig: posts the ante 20
TheRaccooner: posts the ante 20
gräber67: posts the ante 20
Waldcda $: posts the ante 20
Dindi_the2nd: posts small blind 100
ANIBAL425: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Buttmunch16 [Qd Qc]
King_Stig: folds 
TheRaccooner: raises 200 to 400
gräber67: folds 
Waldcda $: raises 400 to 800
Neo112888: folds 
Buttmunch16: calls 800
HyänenPoker: folds 
Dindi_the2nd: folds 
ANIBAL425: folds 
TheRaccooner: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [6d 2h 5d]
TheRaccooner: checks 
Waldcda $: bets 2000
Buttmunch16: calls 2000
TheRaccooner: folds 
*** TURN *** [6d 2h 5d] [4c]
Waldcda $: bets 4273 and is all-in
Buttmunch16: calls 3791 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (482) returned to Waldcda $
*** RIVER *** [6d 2h 5d 4c] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Waldcda $: shows [Kd Kh] (a pair of Kings)
Buttmunch16: shows [Qd Qc] (a pair of Queens)
Waldcda $ collected 14462 from pot
Buttmunch16 finished the tournament in 18671st place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 14462 | Rake 0 
Board [6d 2h 5d 4c Jd]
Seat 1: Neo112888 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Buttmunch16 showed [Qd Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 3: HyänenPoker (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Dindi_the2nd (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: ANIBAL425 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: King_Stig folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TheRaccooner folded on the Flop
Seat 8: gräber67 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Waldcda $ showed [Kd Kh] and won (14462) with a pair of Kings

thedonator716

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September 25, 2011 - 10:17 pm

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t100/t200 Blinds + t20 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Neo112888 (MP2): BB = 40.0, t7990
Hero (CO): BB = 33.1, t6611
Hy�nPoker (BTN): BB = 10.1, t2025
Dindi_the2nd (SB): BB = 17.3, t3450
ANIBAL425 (BB): BB = 29.1, t5824
King_Stig (UTG): BB = 30.6, t6120
TheRaccooner (UTG+1): BB = 25.0, t5000
gr�r67 (UTG+2): BB = 50.2, t10037
Waldcda $ (MP1): BB = 35.5, t7093

Pre Flop: (t480) Hero is CO with Q of diamonds Q of clubs
1 fold, TheRaccooner raises to t400, 1 fold, Waldcda $ raises to t800, 1 fold, Hero calls t800, 3 folds, TheRaccooner calls t400

Flop: (t2880) 6 of diamonds 2 of hearts 5 (3 players)
TheRaccooner checks, Waldcda $ bets t2000, Hero calls t2000, TheRaccooner folds

Turn: (t6880) 4 of clubs (2 players)
Waldcda $ bets t4273 all in, Hero calls t3791 all in

River: (t14462) J of diamonds (2 players – 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t14462
Hero shows Q of diamonds Q of clubs (a pair of Queens)
Waldcda $ shows K K of hearts (a pair of Kings)
Waldcda $ wins t14462

For me it depends. IMO it's hard to tell where you're at in the hand when you just flat the 3bet, plus it allows the OR to call with alot of dangerous hands getting a great price and with 33bb's you don't have alot of room to play around post flop. Versus a very tight player I think we can make it around 1700-1800 and still fold to a shove by mp1 pre, but I myself have a hard time folding QQ with 33bb without a good read or history. As played I don't think I could find a fold here post flop after utg+1 folds. Hope this helps and looking forward to seeing what others havve to say.

bennymacca

Adelaide Australia

Road Gambling with Doyle

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Forum Posts: 2616

Member Since:
October 6, 2010

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September 26, 2011 - 3:07 am

i dont know what i think about flatting the preflop 3bet, you flatting almost looks stronger than cold 4betting imo.

My Personal Blog: .....ymacca.com

hawkeyeK9

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September 27, 2011 - 12:44 pm

Given villians position and there aggression I think I can 4bet/fold pre here. My reasons for this are that they could have monster hands here and that is the only way to find that out. The way you played the hand proves my point because if an A or K flops or comes then you say “**** my life”, and when low cards come out as they did, you call down stacks hoping they dont have a monster or luck sacked a set. This is why I 4bet/fold pre. By 4betting (if you have a solid image) you are narrowing your range to JJ+ or AK. Since your range is so transparent, if they go over the top of your 4bet then you have found out where you are in the hand and preserved your stack vs a possible cooler.

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