View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0.3 Topic Rating: 0.3 Topic Rating: 0.3 Topic Rating: 0.3 Topic Rating: 0.3 Topic Rating: 0.3 (3 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
can someone explain to me value of ak/aq
danrose29
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 147
Member Since:
May 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
July 13, 2013 - 5:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

admittedly im not a very good player but i really dont understand the value of hands  like aq/ak,

im losing so many important pots with these hands i dont even wanna play these hands anymore, it seems everytime someone opens utg late in a small stakes tournament they have a premium hand so why should i risk my tournament three betting them with ak/aq its not even a pair, i dont like 3 betting aq/ak to have them click it back at me and then i know a lot of time its not a good spot and il lose hand often.

 

eg today i 3 bet middle pos raise aq 32bbs sb overcalls and flop q32 he flops 333 how am i supposed to fold hand with 25-30bbs? should i bet flop fold turn leave myself 20bbs? i mean if i just folded aq pre im still in tourny and can find better spot, whats so good about aq/ak? why 3 bet these hands when players flat pocket pairs and flop u dead, when u flop to pair u have no idea where you are.

 

big 11 i have 38bbs aggressive russian opens utg 1 caller i 3 bet ak he clicks it back i shove he has aa and im out of tourny when i dont even need to play the fckin hand. rebuy today i open a10diamonds early position two callers flop a103, good flop? no caller has 333 i lose all my chips, makes me think i should just fold the hand pre as seems to be losing hand even when i flop 2 pair im near dead on flop.

 

so can someone please explain why aq/ak are good hands i just dont understand

redvulture61
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 124
Member Since:
June 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 13, 2013 - 8:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I think you just run as worse as me my friend there is nothing you can really do about flopping top pair vs set heads up with 30bb effective stacks. With AK vs AAs when someone min clicks it back 4bet it is  the best possible hand or a complete nothing that is for you to decide.  The A,10 hand is also a grotess cooler as well.

florianm1
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 588
Member Since:
June 11, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 13, 2013 - 9:54 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
-1

admittedly im not a very good player but i really dont understand the value of hands  like aq/ak,

im losing so many important pots with these hands i dont even wanna play these hands anymore, it seems everytime someone opens utg late in a small stakes tournament they have a premium hand so why should i risk my tournament three betting them with ak/aq its not even a pair, i dont like 3 betting aq/ak to have them click it back at me and then i know a lot of time its not a good spot and il lose hand often.

 

eg today i 3 bet middle pos raise aq 32bbs sb overcalls and flop q32 he flops 333 how am i supposed to fold hand with 25-30bbs? should i bet flop fold turn leave myself 20bbs? i mean if i just folded aq pre im still in tourny and can find better spot, whats so good about aq/ak? why 3 bet these hands when players flat pocket pairs and flop u dead, when u flop to pair u have no idea where you are.

 

big 11 i have 38bbs aggressive russian opens utg 1 caller i 3 bet ak he clicks it back i shove he has aa and im out of tourny when i dont even need to play the fckin hand. rebuy today i open a10diamonds early position two callers flop a103, good flop? no caller has 333 i lose all my chips, makes me think i should just fold the hand pre as seems to be losing hand even when i flop 2 pair im near dead on flop.

 

so can someone please explain why aq/ak are good hands i just dont understand

stop playing poker or change your mindset

bennymacca
Adelaide Australia
Road Gambling with Doyle
Members
Forum Posts: 2616
Member Since:
October 6, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
July 14, 2013 - 12:03 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
1

ok, the way to explore this is to get pokerstove, and start putting in some ranges for villain, and then give yourself AK and see what happens. you can then start to work out what type of range these hands are good against and what types of hands they arent. 

 

i.e if you are 3betting an UTG raiser, who has a range of AT+, 88+ or something, and then he folds out the AT/AJJ part of his range, then AQ isnt going to do very well against that range. so maybe flatting could be better, or if you think he is really tight, even folding. 

 

with AK you have a lot of value because you are very rarely crushed – you take out half the combos of AA and KK becasue you have blockers, even against a range of JJ+, AK, your equity is pretty decent. so with dead money you are quite often +EV with this hand. 

 

get pokerstove and start playing around with ranges though

markconkle
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 175
Member Since:
March 8, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
July 16, 2013 - 11:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Why are AK/AQ good?  Because sometimes your opponent doesn't have a pocket pair.  Most of the time, in fact.

Clarke206
Grinding Micros
Forum Posts: 51
Member Since:
March 18, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
July 26, 2013 - 1:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

+1 to playing with poker stove.

I wanna play in position with these hands against pairs all day. It ain’t that easy to flop a set and even harder to do on an ace high board. Your cbet is going to take out all his missed flops and you’re going to dominate some of his range. It sounds like you need to get more comfortable post flop and work on when to barrel and when to give up. There is no shame in giving up after you’ve 3bet in some spots.

CCuster 911
Delaware

TPE Pro
Forum Posts: 187
Member Since:
September 28, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
July 26, 2013 - 2:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thre are a lot of beenfits to AK/AQ.  bennymaca made a great point in regards to how it plays versus ranges(AK especailly plays relaly nutty AIPF <35BB), but also that fact that AK will always hit TPTK.  Seems obvious but its a fact a lot of people dont think about.  Whenver Ak hits a pair, its TPTK at minimum.  You get value from all weaker top pairs.  AQ does similary except on KQx flops.

 

They also have blockers to nutty hands (AA/KK for AK and AA/QQ for AQ).  This is nice because it makes us les dominated.

 

But a huge underrated part of AK/AQ is there value when you flat.  You can float A LOT of flops.  Like everything that is 456sss or just 3 to a suit you odnt have in general.  You have draws to tptk!!!!  But you alos have the best hand a lot too.  A lot of people make the msitake of constantly 3 ebtting these hands, esepcailly when its hard to get it in preflop against a favorable range(aka more than 40 BB effective and in non late positions). Start flatting these hands some, then you can play back agaisnt squeezes better too!

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

runningouts
Small Stakes Grinder
Members
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
July 20, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
July 26, 2013 - 5:31 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

To add a little to the previous posts – the hands you posted here are mostly coolers, yes you lost with AK/AQ when you flopped well, but I'm certain you've stacked someone on an ace high board with AK against their AJ at some point. It seems like you have had a bad run with these hands and are letting it get to you a bit.

My second thought is that you don't have to be 3betting these hands, sometimes it is a good idea to 3bet it, but honestly if you are uncomfortable playing a big pot with A high it's best to just call and play in position, under-repping your hand. It's also important not to get carried away with AK, you really need to be able to estimate their range from their betting.

michae1di11on
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 137
Member Since:
April 16, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
July 27, 2013 - 10:21 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Unless I've seen villain opening a lot of Ax or pocket pairs, I generally flat my entire range against utg players (in positon).

Having positon is huge and if someone on your left is likely to squeeze, then we can still call/3bet with a ton of our range. I find that 3bettting utg raises turns our hand face up and we rarely get more than a cbet in postflop unless were beaten as our perceived range is so strong. 

michae1di11on
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 137
Member Since:
April 16, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
July 27, 2013 - 10:21 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I also check how often the players to my left are calling preflop behind as if everyone is likely to call after me, calling with QQ isn't such a good idea.

Avatar
Killingbird
Cary, NC

TPE Management
Forum Posts: 4582
Member Since:
April 6, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
July 27, 2013 - 1:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

bennymacca said:

ok, the way to explore this is to get pokerstove, and start putting in some ranges for villain, and then give yourself AK and see what happens. you can then start to work out what type of range these hands are good against and what types of hands they arent. 

 

i.e if you are 3betting an UTG raiser, who has a range of AT+, 88+ or something, and then he folds out the AT/AJJ part of his range, then AQ isnt going to do very well against that range. so maybe flatting could be better, or if you think he is really tight, even folding. 

 

with AK you have a lot of value because you are very rarely crushed – you take out half the combos of AA and KK becasue you have blockers, even against a range of JJ+, AK, your equity is pretty decent. so with dead money you are quite often +EV with this hand. 

 

get pokerstove and start playing around with ranges though

 

^^^^^^^^

This is the right answer….expecially the last part.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
19 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1