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Calling with a draw getting odds vs. check raising
The Riceman
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May 29, 2016 - 9:07 am
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Hey TPE’ers,

So I have been studying this game for years. I am not yet a proven winner in MTTs (in fact thus far I am a proven loser lol), but there is a theme I have heard over and over from many different reputable sources which is:

Calling with a draw is a weak play, check raising is preferable.

I know this is poker and we don’t deal in absolutes, and I know it will be situation specific, but I have heard this so many times it must be a general truth.

Why is C/R preferable to calling even when we’re getting odds? It is not a mathematical mistake to call, but we may be C/R into a strong hand. 

Further, if I CR and miss the turn, am I meant to bet 100% of turns. CR the flop then checking a blank turn not only looks weak IMO, it is also a fairly transparent play.

I play vs. Pokersnowie daily, and the bot is regularly CR the flop then checking the turn. But I saw Andrew question on another thread why another TPE’er had CR flop then checked turn, as though this was an obvious error.

Thanks for your thoughts as always!

Mark

The Riceman
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May 29, 2016 - 9:37 am
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Oh I forgot…

I had a theory…

Is it because V is likely to have missed most flops, and we marry our equity in the hand to our fold equity, and also we have zero show down value with our draw?

Did I answer my own question?

Foucault

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May 29, 2016 - 11:15 am
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Yeah, like you said, it depends. There are plenty of spots where raising some draws and calling with others will be best. Also important to keep in mind that calling the flop doesn’t have to mean that you won’t play the hand aggressively later. It’s all about expected value. Just because calling is profitable doesn’t mean that raising won’t be more profitable – as you say, if you can push your opponent off of significant equity and still have a good chance of winning even if he doesn’t fold, that’s a great opportunity.

The Riceman
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May 29, 2016 - 6:55 pm
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Thanks  Andrew.

What makes one draw good for CR and another better for Check-calling? I know I am asking you to generalise but…well I guess I’m asking you to generalise!

That question goes out to anybody btw, not just Andrew.

JupiterRocks
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May 31, 2016 - 2:05 pm
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Do we have the nut flush draw?

Is there an open ended Straight mixed in with flush draw?

Basically how many outs and at what stage of game are we.

our position? 

What kind of read do we have on V, what do we feel his range is at this point in the game.

Do you feel ya can bring pot down with a raise, C/R?

Short stacked? Early/mid/late in tournament?

These are all questions we should be asking ourselves in this situation.

I still have trouble in times of heated play to stop and ask all the questions I need to, But by interjecting my opinion on post and writing out what I believe to be the right answer I train myself and implant these questions in my head so I may in the future remember in the heat of play to do what I know I should.

I can only hope if I am wrong that a TPE member will sound off about any nonsense I speak. 

Regards,

The Riceman
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June 4, 2016 - 5:22 pm
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No I expect you are right.

I fear the same sometimes…

Sometimes I will write a post I am proud of…then realise an hour later that I got the whole thing wrong. Then I panic and wish I could delete my post.

Then I realise that actually I don’t care so much.

You see…winning poker players are actually nothing more than extremely efficient mathematicians.

Trying to rub shoulders with these guys is like an ego boost when you get it right…

But when you get it wrong it is painful.

I am thinking of the Rice Dice as I type this.

The Riceman
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June 4, 2016 - 5:23 pm
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The Rice Dice is my most painful moment thus far at TPE.

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