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Calling range and ICM question
gary170764
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August 2, 2016 - 10:19 pm
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vil 1 12222
vil 2 10542
vil 3 9588
me 9339
vil 4 31729
vil 5 12380

800/1600 ante 200

pot pre = 3600

reads were after 26 hands he was playing 19/19 it was a hyper MTT so vil 1 pushed allin

oh im on button with TJs

it was kind of a winner takes all tournament so does ICM apply at any point ?

maybe at Heads up? i really dont know I dont understand ICM yet

so if ICM does apply what hands are you calling the allin with here ?

and

if ICM doesnt apply which hands you callin an allin ?

Think I made a sizeable mistake well I know I did if ICM applies

I tired to work it out but im unsure…

I know I need 41.9% to break even this is with no ICM

is 55+,A9s+,KJs+,ATo+,KQo (11.2%)

or 66+,AJs+,AQo+ (6.8%) the correct range to call allin with ?

thanks & please help smile

gary170764
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August 3, 2016 - 1:29 am
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I think ive found the answer for ICM by watching a video from betyoudontbet

 

If it is ICM the calling range is 10%, 55+ ATs+ AJo+ KJs+ QTs+ JTs

 

Stil unsure if it not ICM applicable do we go tighter or wider than ICM ?..normally I would think tighter but its winner takes all and hyper and our stack is so small

theginger45

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August 3, 2016 - 4:45 am
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In a winner take all tournament there is no ICM, since there’s no benefit to ‘moving up the pay ladder’. In fact, there’s significant value attached to taking certain spots that might give you the ability to put more pressure on your opponents in future hands, so there’s reason to think going fairly wide would be good here. With that in mind, I think the 10% range you’ve come up with looks pretty good.

A tool like HoldemResources Calculator will give you the ability to run these calculations with certainty about your results though, so I would absolutely recommend getting hold of a copy of HRC and spending some time with it. It’s an incredibly valuable tool.

The Riceman
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August 3, 2016 - 9:45 am
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Hey Gary…good to see you in the forums. So there’s your answer…(Gary and I were discussing this hand in the Introduce Yourself section).

Have you watched Andrew Brokos’ (Foucault) new series… It’s called Getting Off On The Right Foot? I cannot tell you how helpful it has been for me. It’s aimed mainly at less experienced or beginner players, but I have been playing for years…and it wasn’t until I watched this series that I realised I am still a beginner! (Well, regarding MTTs I knew that anyway).

As Ginger says…get yourself Holdem Resources Calculator. I wish I had had the thing earlier.

I come from 180 man SNGs , and although I knew (from my results!) I wasn’t a top player, I certainly felt I was at least very competent in push/ fold. But since I have had HRC I have realised I had/still have large holes in my push/ fold game also!

But as Ginger points out, these kind of push/ fold situations are some of the most solvable situations in Hold’em…so grab yourself a Nash chart for in game and HRC to study!

gary170764
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August 3, 2016 - 9:12 pm
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Thanks Matt 

oh cool ty so much it clears up confusion in my head.Ive watched some of your videos and they very good umm the one where you did a 10 parter with the Aussie guy was great the from hero to zero ive also watched your life coaching series

At the time i did call and flopped T but 7 was on flop too he pushed 77 so busted in 6th .I thought it was very close decision but was unsure 4/4 people said it was a bad call but I think they were tryin to get 2nd or 3rd in their thinking which only won play money the winner in this homegame won $11 ticket

Hi again The Riceman I asked Andrew which ones to watch and of course the ones he recommended were mostly his and yeah ive watched it ive mainy been watching theory vids up until now as so much to learn and so many holes 

My background is 9 man and 45 man SNG but only very low buyins but I built small bankroll on them and trying to learn MTT’s I find cahs games boring but I make more in them per hour {still talking very small numbers) so I guess im not entirely in it for the money lol but find tournaments super exciting !!

 

If your a beginner like me Andrew recommended

Getting Off on the Right Foot

Hand Reading (boy oh boy am i struggling  with this)

Getting Paid

and Bluffing (downloaded them for future)

 

support also recommened university and also check out DANNYN13 latest and foucalt brokos latest

 

i also recommend from what ive watched so far …

I grind this

Ben reasons

goleafsgoeh

theory math

 

but theres so many videos lots ive not seen

 

Thanks for helping me u2

The Riceman
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August 4, 2016 - 5:06 pm
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Lol you have almost listed in order the videos I have studied! I doubt Andrew was recommending his videos because they are his videos…. I listen to Andrew a lot..and that is an understatement! I expect Andrew was simply listing the series he felt would be the most beneficial to you. I cannot truthfully say that I sense 0% ego with Andrew…but it is close enough! But I am sure he recommends his videos because he feels that they will be the most beneficial to you right now…also of course he will be extremely familiar with the material.

The Riceman
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August 4, 2016 - 5:21 pm
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Hey Gary I am prone to write irrelevancies here in the forums. I drink once in a blue moon these days but tonight the family has flown to Spain so I am liberated for 2 weeks!

The point being I am not sure my last post is even relevant!

The Riceman
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August 4, 2016 - 5:28 pm
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I have a joke for you…

I do an exercise I do every day to keep in shape…

It is called the…

Diddly-squats!

Ahhh I am going to bed!

gary170764
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August 4, 2016 - 8:06 pm
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lol Riceman

 

I didnt mean it too sound the way it may have come across regarding Andrew I messaged him and asked which to start with..and whichever he said I was goign to follow I have no ego either

 

I plan on watchign at least 1 vid from all authors and see if I like there styles/explaantions but Imainly been getting theory ones so been mixing in others

 

So one son the list are a broad spectrum but lots I havent seen yet 

 

I have my 3 favourites so far but im not naming names ! {oh alright 1 is Andrew just so you know}

 

not been studyin as hard found out in a strange way that im not receiving some emails I should been so been on phone for 5 hours past 2 days tryin to sort it out if it wasnt for Microsoft  wouldnt have ever known so ty Microsoft!

The Riceman
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August 5, 2016 - 4:59 pm
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I shall give you a piece of my mind.

I am conscious Andrew gets a lot of kudos here at TPE, so I do not want to go OTT. I am sure “kudos” is a Greek word but I am not totally sure what it means! It sounds right though…

I get a little annoyed sometimes when I see TPE pros get slated on 2+2 or wherever…(actually on 2+2 exactly!) for their style of video production or production quality or whatever.

Usually, regarding video production Andrew is cited as an example of “how it should be done”. And rightly so IMO.

But as I understand things, Andrew has a past in debating, so to me at least it is no wonder that his productions are polished and professional.

And these other pros…(some of whom also have exceptionally high production standards in their output btw), are just that…poker professionals. They are not professional presenters or teachers. 

When I study/ watch a video series at TPE, i want to come away from the thing having learned something. It is as simple as that. I want to come away from the series feeling that it has been useful to me to have watched the thing. So long as the production is watchable and instructive, I am happy. I care not a jot how the pro sounds or comes across. 

Having said all that, and not wishing to give Andrew a big head (not that he probably cares what I think lol!), but for me at least, Andrew Brokos is worth the price of admission to TPE alone…IMHO.

gary170764
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August 5, 2016 - 8:36 pm
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yeah im the same i guess…like for example the gleafsgoeh and ben reasons dont think they are from teaching background but they can get their point over so it all cool

 

not keen on that 2+2 place left ages ago when im a begijinner and i get say 10 replies 3 are koeky 6 are sacracstic(but it goes obver my head) and only 1 is real well as begionner I neevr knew wh wa sjoking or not

 

theyve unplugged my emails i got a deluge today 1 was even in German..sent my fiend an email dayss ago he finally got it 

 

sorry typos am rushing

The Riceman
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August 6, 2016 - 1:13 pm
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Dont worry about typos…

All we care about is poker here.

(And I tell you something else my man… My family Is all in Spain for 2 weeks and I binked a 180 the other night so I have some kind of a roll…and I am looking forward to my Sunday sesh like a kiddy looks forward to Xmas morning on Xmas eve!).

 

.

gary170764
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August 6, 2016 - 9:57 pm
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cool glgl

 

once i get onto my windows 10 puter if my email ever gets sorted out I plan on starting a grind…its kinda my first 1 ever well did try once but then the games I had chosen to play all disappeared a bit liek my emails!!

 

its so strange the emails dont even land in the deleted folder..just vanish into thin air but you usually have 2 to 6 hours to read them it seems b4 they gone

 

switched from imap to pop and within 1 hour my test email had vanished  

 

oh on this 11 year old vista computer email work perfectly though.just hoping once email sorted all my programs gonan work on win10

thedylan186

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August 7, 2016 - 1:54 am
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I use HRC a lot after my sessions. I’ll plug in hands as a go then take a look after to see if I’ve made any mistakes in calling or shoving. 

So having come across this spot often in turbos, I’m 99% sure you should be calling off with JTs here since your hand plays very well against his shoving range. We’d obviously rather be the shover here, but with just under 6 bbs, this is a spot you should be comfortable trying to double up+ with (not to mention it’s winner take all and you can’t afford to sit around looking for better spots).

I plugged it in here: https://gyazo.com/df6b8aaf602841cbc3bda031d9fa95e8

It has him shoving 28.0%, 22+ A2s+ A4o+ K7s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QTo+ J8s+ T8s+ 98s 87s, which I think is fair. (If you think it’s too loose, then it can be adjusted, making JTs less of a call).

And our calling range should be 19.3%, 33+ A2s+ A7o+ K9s+ KJo+ QTs+ JTs 

JTs makes around .04 bbs which equates to 4bb/100 if I’m not mistaken. It’s close and you may not like it in the moment, but you should be calling off here. 

Hope this makes sense and helps a little!

The Riceman
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August 7, 2016 - 8:00 am
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Hey Dylan…are you our new pro? If so I heard about you on the recent pod. Frankly whilst we have two excellent pros already interacting in the forums…I always feel it’s a shame more don’t get involved.

Still, I suppose it is easy for me to say…this is just a hobby for me… I expect they are busy trying to bring in the $$$. 

You know, there are a couple of men in my family who have their own businesses, one of whom…my uncle…was so successful he moved to the Bahamas and built a town! If you look on a map outside Nassau you will see a place called Sandyport. It is named after my aunt Sandy. And my other uncle does alright also…although not in the same league.

I am employed…and whilst I can’t say I am in ecstasy every time I leave for work…at least I have a guaranteed income and pension and NI contributions, paid holidays etc.

I suppose I am saying if you can make the self employed thing work you can have the best of everything…but it must be stressful having no security.

Anyway, that’s my thought for the day…

Respect the self employed person! They have cojones!

thedylan186

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August 7, 2016 - 8:45 pm
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Hey Riceman! Yes it was in the works for a while but just became official recently and I have a strategy video out now with Marc Alioto. I’m going to try my best to dedicate time to the forums and interact with our members. 

Very cool story about your family! Bahamas is great.

Tournament poker is very swingy and can be cruel at times. But I’ve been playing for over 8 years now and have experienced everything. I don’t sweat the downswings and don’t take the upswings for granted. Being smart financially is key in sustaining this lifestyle. 

The Riceman
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August 8, 2016 - 12:55 am
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Testing 123

Ok I had typed out a response but it got zapped when I tried to post it!

Welcome Dylan…

We always have a good laugh here, at least I do!

I saw your video with Marc in the playlist …I shall check it out after I have finished with Jase Regina’s current series… I really like his output.

For sure there is space for another pro’s input in the forums.

I had a fantastic day yesterday…my family are all in Spain, so I had the day to myself.

1) woke up and played War Thunder (a classic WW2 plane and tank sim…check it out! Its free to play with ingame purchases of course… My handle on PlayStation is  – softshoedancer. Join my squad of B17 Flying Fortresses!).

2) Did my exercises. Sit ups and press ups. My wife is an aerobics instructior and personal trainer so she sees me right!

3) Breakfast at the cafe with the Sunday Times… heaven!

4) Home to grind! I managed a $500 day profit… I wish I could do that every day!

I really enjoyed yesterday, it is so hard with a family and full time job to get time to put in a good session.

Anyway, pleased to make your acquaintance…

Mark

Edit…Gary, I know we recommended HRC and whilst not as dear as ICMIZER2 it is still some money to find…but if you are struggling with Andrew’s Hand Reading series, something which really helped me with studying that series specifically was Pokersnowie. I tried reading Snowie’s hands using Andrew’s methods and I was truly amazed at the results. For some reason I thought my experiment wouldn’t work…but I found myself getting to where I just knew into which category a specific Snowie hand fell…and I was almost always correct. Snowie is a first rate study tool for TPE video series, and it will wait for you forever whilst you look at a spot…whilst always giving it’s A game. 

I used to run analysis through Poker Coach, but now I just use the starter pack to warm up pre sesh, and to study video series. I believe the basic package is £30 or something. 

Highly Riceman recommended!

gary170764
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August 8, 2016 - 8:51 pm
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heatwaves over so im back..for a bit

 

thanks thedylan186 by doin all my calcs felt it was close made the call(and lost-mustnt be results orientated) but must admit doubt he was shoving quite that wide although im not so sure on that aspect yet as my hand reading skills or lack of is prolly my biggest leak..I play tight uusally and imagine everyones as tight as me which obv aint true..im somehow profitable must be with tthe help of all the promos/tickets/ etc yet have some huge leaks so it spurs meon knowing I can only improve & egt better

 

i watch a Dylan on twitch now im wondering if you are him?…his nick is something liek thepokerdevil and hes really good and  a pro

 

oh yeah makes lot of sense thank you and helps not a little but a lot

 

I have  a maths background so b4 i can aford HRC I may try to build my own but could be quite tricky to do ! but if i can get say within + or – 5% would be ok for low buyins until i can afford the proper thing {not sure of price but my bankroll is very poor}

 

@thericeman I will have to watch and rewatch the hand reading vids…umm normal person may need to watch say 3 tiems so fo rme could be 8 times!!! thatll keep me busy thru the Winter

 

ohh can I ask your wife fitness tips ? 

 

now where to start with those algorithms lol

thedylan186

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August 9, 2016 - 12:02 am
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Wouldn’t beat yourself over that hand. It’s still pretty close but I think the winner take all aspect + how short we are with that specific hand make it a call.

That is a different Dylan that streams on Twitch and yes, he is a very solid player.  

HRC has a trial you can download. So maybe save some hands or download it when you have a week to put in a little more volume. 

gary170764
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August 9, 2016 - 12:38 am
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cool thought was close but maybe bad call as 4 other people said so but I wanted to investigate

 

ohh yeah just seen your pic on vid series think the other Dylan is Hortin or Horton something like that

 

Thanks yeah when I start to grind for real and get some hands will take a look @trial 

 

Ive got a new computer a new hud just need the skills but tried play 50% study 50% and wasnt learning enough even at 60/40 no good so im like 70/30 in favour of study at first it was hard as its like when your a kid and the world cup is on all you want to do is play I feel more confident I am now learning and ive identiffed my main big 5 leaks 

 

when i go on a downswing I study 80% but must admit when its time to play im enjoying it even more…dont get me wrong once Ive learnt a ton {and I know always be learning} I willl be bale to play a lot more and multitable more currently can only manage 2.5 tables could do 4 SNG but MTT gong from 1 to 2 took me an age…thinkign Im going to need a biigger monitor in the longer to mid term

 

recently qualified to 2 $11 games now if I can only take top prize of 730 euros games on Friday

The Riceman
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August 10, 2016 - 9:28 pm
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You can build an ICM calculator? I can also build things…today I built a piece of bread which I toasted and placed butter on.

You could call your ICM calculator the GarICMzator.

Actually that is crap forget it I drank a whiskey I will go to bed?

The Riceman
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August 10, 2016 - 9:39 pm
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The Gari-nizor? GarICMzilla? PokerGary? Gary Resources Calculator? GAR-Y-CMIZER… yes thats the one matey! There is no question!

btw I just cooked and ate a “sweet chilli chicken” pizza. Near my set-up I have a toilet/shower room. There seems to be a spider who has got stuck in the shower base. I have given him/her a piece of cooked chicken from my pizza…and it is eating it! lol

gary170764
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August 10, 2016 - 11:02 pm
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oh my just dont drink too much m8 an eat the spider!

The Riceman
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August 11, 2016 - 10:35 am
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Well I have realised something poker related to my game that is so fundamental and so huge that I cannot even believe I was ignorant of its importance. I don’t mean to be a dick…but I really don’t want to say what it is. Because I believe many…even most perhaps(?) players are neglecting it also. Then again, maybe it is just myself who has been playing in ignorance. 

In any case it is paying immediate and seemingly huge dividends.

Well if you want to know, a donation into my Stars account of $15000 seems appropriate, actually maybe a little too high…say 10k?

The spider was dead this morning. This really upset me as I was going to free it last night but figured it would be OK with the pizza. The pizza killed it.

Yes Gary I don’t drink in regularity. The family is away. So I don’t want to come across as an alky! Having experienced addiction in my past, I can assure you I don’t have an alcoholic bone in my body. I just hate a hangover and although I like a drink, I don’t enjoy being drunk…erm, well sometimes I do actually!

All that “addicted to one thing means you’re addicted to every addictive substance for ever more” is just a total load of baloney. At least for me. I do believe addiction is a disease, and it will be different for everyone, but just because someone is addicted to cocaine or heroin most certainly doesn’t mean they are addicted to alcohol, or even predisposed to it. At least in my opinion.

Oh, and I came up with the definitive name…

Garyzilla.

Oh, and I also rewatch Andrew’s videos multiple times. His range construction series…I must have put 180 hours+ into it…and even then I cant remember much of it!

gary170764
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August 12, 2016 - 4:53 pm
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wow at 180 hours ive watched only 25 but would have been 30 for not my email problems

 

yeah any addiction is bad im not addicted to poker(being genuinely serious here for a minute) but if I dont play for day or 2 i do miss it….so it can be addictive however im not much of  a gambler yet either I follow BRM

 

wanted to ask u say ive now typed in 5 different forum posts how can I keep track of where ive typed is there any easy way ?

 

I have a poor memory so an nice easy way would be helpful

 

Garyzilla lol

 

ps i dont have 15K at the moment but am curious now

The Riceman
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August 28, 2016 - 7:34 pm
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Sorry Gary just going deep in hotter 7.50 and looking thru TPE threads…I wasn’t being rude, I never saw your post. 

Not sure how to keep track of your thread posts… I have a feeling its an option somewhere though. I’m such a prolific poster I am usually aware of where I have posted. 

If you look at my “Help with calling ranges” thread, I give the “secret” away there…free of charge!

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