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whats you plan in the following situations….
you raise 99 in UTG+1 to 3x early and MP 3 bets to 3x you bet size.
Whats your general line, a) 100bb deep b) 60bb deep c) 40bb deep
do you flat and look to set mine or ch/c a street or two on safe boards? how does this vary against tight and loose 3 bettors?
second scenario same as above but you have say 22-77 where basically you are set mining?
The reason I ask is that OOP i very very rarely call OOP a 3 bet in
fact the deeper we are the harder the hand becomes to play imo as we
have larger reverse implied odds… interested to get your thoughts
June 25, 2010
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with regards to set mining a lot of people use the 15:1 rule. Odds are around 8:1 to flop a set, so the 15:1 is used because of how infrequently you get action. I think you can go with 10:1-12:1 in this situation because he most likely has a big hand that he will commit to post flop. With that being said, 100bb is pretty marginal, and 60-40 is a fold. Of course with those stacks you can make a case for four bet jamming over a guy who is 3betting light.
jshilling09 said:
with regards to set mining a lot of people use the 15:1 rule. Odds are around 8:1 to flop a set, so the 15:1 is used because of how infrequently you get action. I think you can go with 10:1-12:1 in this situation because he most likely has a big hand that he will commit to post flop. With that being said, 100bb is pretty marginal, and 60-40 is a fold. Of course with those stacks you can make a case for four bet jamming over a guy who is 3betting light.
+1
jshilling09 said:
with regards to set mining a lot of people use the 15:1 rule. Odds are around 8:1 to flop a set, so the 15:1 is used because of how infrequently you get action. I think you can go with 10:1-12:1 in this situation because he most likely has a big hand that he will commit to post flop. With that being said, 100bb is pretty marginal, and 60-40 is a fold. Of course with those stacks you can make a case for four bet jamming over a guy who is 3betting light.
thx i understand set mining principles though 🙂
this situation i ment more was where you have a hand that u can play not just for set mining value i.e. example 1.
with regards to example 2, I actually think set mining OOP is a huge leak, but wanted to get thoughts on it with the various stacl sizes mentioned
June 25, 2010
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Yeah I was talking about 99, most flops you hate, unless they contain a 9. So playing a big pot out of position with a hand that doesn't flop well, and is beating almost nothing in his range when 3bets an UTG raise is not advisable unless you have the odds to flop a set. I think it's a pretty easy fold when you are not getting odds to set mine. JJ is more interesting in this spot.
June 11, 2010
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I can give you my thoughts on the question just for some added perspective. For your first question i will call the 3bet with 100bb deep against a tight player, against a loose I jam to try to get max value from a junk hand. With 60 and 40bb I fold to a tight player and I jam 60bb on a loose player and fold 40bb. For your second question, with 22-77 this only happens early when players are deep as this becomes a huge issue late and imo is spewy. Once I get to the mid-stages I tend to try to avoid playing OOP at all costs as it is very difficult (obviously i will with a strong hand, but I don't try to get cute from there). I agree if you call a 3bet OOP when your deep trying to set mine it can be difficult. Biggest thing I can say there is you have to stick to your plan. If you are calling to set mine and miss then leave it at that, don't get caught up in it.
lespaulgman said:
I can give you my thoughts on the question just for some added perspective. For your first question i will call the 3bet with 100bb deep against a tight player, against a loose I jam to try to get max value from a junk hand. With 60 and 40bb I fold to a tight player and I jam 60bb on a loose player and fold 40bb. For your second question, with 22-77 this only happens early when players are deep as this becomes a huge issue late and imo is spewy. Once I get to the mid-stages I tend to try to avoid playing OOP at all costs as it is very difficult (obviously i will with a strong hand, but I don't try to get cute from there). I agree if you call a 3bet OOP when your deep trying to set mine it can be difficult. Biggest thing I can say there is you have to stick to your plan. If you are calling to set mine and miss then leave it at that, don't get caught up in it.
Les pretty much summed it up for me based on playing style that is. But you gotta think about something else, your playing style and how people will react to it. If you open wide and feel ppl are playing back, see how they react to a 4bet. Tight players play pre-flop OOP cautiously, Loose players play post-flop OOP cautiously.
It all depends on the situation……duh! lol
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