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Call raise or fold with draw?
DaKid
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June 7, 2011 - 11:23 am
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Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t100/t200 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

borik52 (BTN): t8723 43.62 BBs
sancho 1971 (SB): t8585 42.92 BBs
enxotopinto (BB): t16093 80.47 BBs
Hero (UTG): t7135 35.67 BBs
POENITA (UTG+1): t8285 41.42 BBs
>>ELMASTIN<< (UTG+2): t7003 35.02 BBs
Dutchie22888 (MP1): t15169 75.84 BBs
silage89 (MP2): t6796 33.98 BBs
Yulss AA (CO): t8256 41.28 BBs

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is UTG with T of spades J of clubs
Hero raises to t485, POENITA calls t485, 6 folds, enxotopinto calls t285

Flop: (t1555) 7 of clubs 9 of hearts K of spades (3 players)
enxotopinto bets t800, Hero raises to t2100, POENITA folds, enxotopinto raises to t5200, Hero raises to t6650 all in, enxotopinto calls t1450

Turn: (t14855) 3 of spades (2 players – 1 is all in)

River: (t14855) 2 of hearts (2 players – 1 is all in)

 

Ok i know the raise UTG is probably too lose and is probably a  mistake but as played what do I do with this hand when villan donks.

 

I usually consider donk bets as weakest hands or draws so i raised hoping to take it down there and then(correct thinking?), should i have shoved when he raises to discourage a weak king or mid pair calling? Should i have called hoping to hit the draw and get payed off hands mentioned above or do i just fold?

As played i dont think i can fold once he 3bets, so its the original flop bet that put me in this situation. Now im leaning toward a flat on the flop fold the turn, but that seems a bit weak. What do you guys think?

 

 

 

hawkeyeK9
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June 7, 2011 - 12:21 pm
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No offense but this is all around just spew. Since you did play it here are a couple thoughts. The donk lead is usually a sign of top pair, two pair, and sometimes draws. Once he 4bets to 5k+ he is never folding and you are just gambling if you put it in. Your 3bet to the donk lead is for 1/3 ur stack, every action you made was spew. I am not saying any of this with mean thoughts or intentions, just trying to help because if you took the time to post it then you must think it is somewhat justified how you played the hand.

G0liath
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June 7, 2011 - 4:04 pm
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firstly JTo UTG is a pretty marginal open 9 handed with 35bb. I wouldn't consider doing this unless there was a very good reason to do so.

 

On the flop if the donk lead was smaller, around 1/3 pot, i might put him on a small pair or maybe 7 or a  9 or maybe a draw. Seeings as its a 1/2 pot ill give him a little more credit and include top pair and as hawk says maybe two pair. This said i would just call because you have a decent draw and position, and crucially, you dont have enough chips left to be able to raise/fold. IF you raise, whenever your opponent puts you in you'll be getting too good odds to fold and will be pot committer to call knowing your gonna have to bink one of your 8 outs, not a great spot.

 

If you call flop and he does have a weak hand/pair he will usually check the turn and you can consider taking a stab there or taking a free card.

 

 

 

DaKid
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June 7, 2011 - 6:27 pm
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Oh yeah agree it was spewy and poorly played, it really all starts by raising a very marginal hand UTG, which i think came out of not playing a hand in long time! Stupid i know. So as played yous think call flop, re-evaluate turn?

DroppinDimes
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June 7, 2011 - 7:52 pm
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Yeah i like to open wide from all positions but J10o utg is a little to marginal mainly because of your stack size….as played i seriously think you should just be done with it on the flop his donk lead tells us he has a pair min as the flop is dry we only invested 485 just fold.

Psellos
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June 7, 2011 - 8:04 pm
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i might be tempted to peel one on the flop if i got in this position as i might get a free river if he checks the turn but if fires again im giving up.

hapetimes
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June 7, 2011 - 8:54 pm
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1 – fold pre

 

2 – flat the flop 1/2 pot donk lead. we have equity and raising here only turns our hand into a bluff and means we have to fold to a 4bet, which leads to point #3;

 

3 – fold when he 4bets your flop raise

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praetor
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June 8, 2011 - 2:01 am
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   I agree with everyone else. I would have folded pre, even though a raise may look strong your only being called or reraised by better.  After the flop I do not like to play gutshots aggressive, open/ended depending on opponents, but not gutshots. 

"Your either in Sheen's Korner or your with the trolls."

G0liath
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June 8, 2011 - 8:29 am
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praetor said:

   I agree with everyone else. I would have folded pre, even though a raise may look strong your only being called or reraised by better.  After the flop I do not like to play gutshots aggressive, open/ended depending on opponents, but not gutshots. 

he is open ended 8 or Q

KingBustYou
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June 8, 2011 - 9:05 am
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Agree

1-Fold pre

2-Flat flopbet for pot control and deception if you hit, villain wont be putting you on JT most of the time

3-As played you cant really fold anymore getting around 2.5-1 with 8 outs to the nuts

DaKid
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June 8, 2011 - 10:26 am
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KingBustYou said:

Agree

1-Fold pre

2-Flat flopbet for pot control and deception if you hit, villain wont be putting you on JT most of the time

3-As played you cant really fold anymore getting around 2.5-1 with 8 outs to the nuts

Agreed, i like this way of playing from start to finish, i think thats how it should have been played!

Cougars4444
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June 8, 2011 - 1:17 pm
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KingBustYou said:

Agree

1-Fold pre

2-Flat flopbet for pot control and deception if you hit, villain wont be putting you on JT most of the time

3-As played you cant really fold anymore getting around 2.5-1 with 8 outs to the nuts

This is exactly what I'd do.

terbet11
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June 8, 2011 - 6:21 pm
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In agreement with most of the TPE family.  I first fold pre, but the way play, i just call the donk bet hoping to hit the draw and then evaluate. 

DroppinDimes
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June 8, 2011 - 10:09 pm
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woops i thought it was a gutter too, def peeling flop then re eval turn.

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