May 31, 2012
Hey guys, I've only recently learned of the whole small blind vs big blind unexploitable shove with QTs in a given situation (blinds and antes making it profitable and your opponent can't do anything if the situation is ad infinitum (i'm not sure how to use that latin phrase hah). Anyway, I learned only a few months ago when I saw Greg Raymer give a presentation at a kennel club. It really got me thinking and recently I've started to do a lot of experimenting with pokerstove. I KNOW that this has a good possibility of not being the most profitable move, but I'm still in the thought process of just learning what these types of shoves mean. I'm trying to learn of general guidelines by experimenting. So far, under the worst antes situation I can find in a tournament (1/6 of the big blind), I've learned that if the pot is 10% of your stack and it is folded to you, you can profitably shove JTs (1/2 of a blind). I'm really interested in going through this experimenting even if there's a chart that explains all of this easily. I'm definitely a very mathy person and doing things myself helps me tons. At the moment, I'm trying to work on pocket pairs (which is actually weird because I didn't realize that only 9% of hands are a favorite over 55. I'm moving down to 33 next to try and find the minimum hand next).
I don't think I've ever posted on this forum, and I read the thread on 2+2 back from 2008 where they talk about this and move onto finding more profitable spots, like raise/fold ranges and stuff. I would like to talk to other players about this because it helps me check my thinking haha. Would anyone be interested in getting a skype chat together to discuss this? I don't see it taking more than an hour going back and forth, but I'd really love to talk about this with other people. My roommate has an insanely high iq, so it's interesting to talk about the math, but because he doesn't know poker at all, it's sort of difficult to get feed back aside from the actual math being correct.
So yeah!
June 5, 2012
The HU BvB push/fold game has been solved mathematically.
The ICM calculator on the same site can solve for different ante structures, etc.
From the actual math solving, though, you have to be the poker player and adjuts for your opponents. If they're tighter, shoving wider and the like.
May 31, 2012
Thanks for showing that to me! I assumed it had been solved, but I wanted to do it myself to realize generalities (like the 10% rule I found after some crunching).
But yes, I'd love to discuss different options there to improve cEV that can be exploitable, but isn't an issue. I don't play enough (I deposit now and then, but never a lot for significant volume), and I don't have a lot of stats, but I was thinking of taking a guy with x-stats and coming up with ways to play that exact situation. (ie: raise/fold > shove > minraise > fold)
My biggest epiphone in doing this math is realizing that so many hands I expect to be flipping are just a little bit worse than flips, which means our chipEV increases even more.
For instance, 55 is losing to 89s but not AKs. I know these are tiny percentage points, but in some instances it seems like it could mean a significant amount of chips, even excluding any times this may come up ITM (where ICM factors may/may not have an impact). When I ran 55 (I haven't found the minimum pocket pair yet, and I'm not going to look at that chart until I finish doing some more on my own), I would expect (and I guess others would) that the calling range for a random villain at 1-2 with 1/6 ante (9 handed) would not be the exactly correct range even if we flipped our hand over for them. “Oh it's a flip, I call obviously with AJ (and AT and KQ and K9 etc)”. Because we are a slight slight favorite in these hands, it increases our equity further. That part just blew my mind. I had no idea pocket pairs had that much equity against overcards.
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