NST said:
hawkeyeK9 said:
Double barrel or check/fold turn imo?
These spots I like to limp in the SB and min bet on flop, opponent nearly always will miss flop and will fold. Prevents big pot oop blind vs blind where ranges can be so wide and hard to hand read.
This is really really easy to exploit. Don't recommend it. When I see people doing this I will just start raising their bets otf extremely wide. Also KJo bvb would be a waste played like this.
To the hand then. I would either doublebarrel or check/fold the turn but it's because I'm really uncomfortable playing bvb and overall suck at it. Also the problem with doublebarreling is that it's really easy for the villain to just doublefloat as we are relatively deep. I would try to avoid spots like these with good regs and let them spew away bvb when we really do have a hand and they want to keep playing back at us. So my line would be just giving up ott but even for me it feels kinda weak.
As far as that line goes, it is not that easy to exploit. I am doing it with my entire range and few people adjust. When they do, I defend with my whole range and it is impossible to peg me on a hand. I am fine with playing post flop in sticky spots with a disquised range.
June 15, 2012
Duggs posted this hand on Skype last night and asked for some input so here is my $0.02.
Normally as played I like a double barrel/give up on the river, but by betting the flop and check/calling the turn we narrow the range of hands we should have here quite a bit. By betting check/calling then check/jamming the river we get villian off so many showdown hands that he will go for thing value with on the river, and quite alot of his stronger hands he might have. However, if villian is likely to be airballing here alot after we give him the chance to take it away on the turn, i.e if villian is capable of a double float, then our hand looks pretty nutted. Also, as we're holding the Jc we block quite a few value hands he might take this line with, I don't think we can ever take this line without a blocker like this.
I definatly agree that if villian has any sort of nutted hand he will jam the river, it looks slightly bluffier and will extract max value from alot of 1/2pair hand you have been pot controlling on the turn. I also feel that villian should check back most of his 1 pair type hands (KQ/QJ/QT etc etc) but will often bet his 2nd pair type hands (8x for example) to get us off our Qx type hands that we pot control the turn with as he probably thinks this small bet will look super strong to us and he will fold always. He may also take this line with hands like 9xTc and think the same way.
Feel free to disagree etc but I think that check/calling turn and check/jamming river looks pretty nutted vs a thinking villian bvb.
JStarkey said:
Duggs posted this hand on Skype last night and asked for some input so here is my $0.02.
Normally as played I like a double barrel/give up on the river, but by betting the flop and check/calling the turn we narrow the range of hands we should have here quite a bit. By betting check/calling then check/jamming the river we get villian off so many showdown hands that he will go for thing value with on the river, and quite alot of his stronger hands he might have. However, if villian is likely to be airballing here alot after we give him the chance to take it away on the turn, i.e if villian is capable of a double float, then our hand looks pretty nutted. Also, as we're holding the Jc we block quite a few value hands he might take this line with, I don't think we can ever take this line without a blocker like this.
I definatly agree that if villian has any sort of nutted hand he will jam the river, it looks slightly bluffier and will extract max value from alot of 1/2pair hand you have been pot controlling on the turn. I also feel that villian should check back most of his 1 pair type hands (KQ/QJ/QT etc etc) but will often bet his 2nd pair type hands (8x for example) to get us off our Qx type hands that we pot control the turn with as he probably thinks this small bet will look super strong to us and he will fold always. He may also take this line with hands like 9xTc and think the same way.
Feel free to disagree etc but I think that check/calling turn and check/jamming river looks pretty nutted vs a thinking villian bvb.
I like your thoughts. My only question though is if we are representing the flush on the river are we really gonna check hoping the villian will bet? Feel like we would be more likely to lead river for value rather than take a chance for a check/jam when we would not get much value from it if we think villian is folding a majority of the time.
JStarkey said:
I also feel that villian should check back most of his 1 pair type hands (KQ/QJ/QT etc etc) but will often bet his 2nd pair type hands (8x for example) to get us off our Qx type hands that we pot control the turn with as he probably thinks this small bet will look super strong to us and he will fold always. He may also take this line with hands like 9xTc and think the same way.
I dont think that he is betting 8 on the turn that often. His opponent definitely wont fold Q type hands on the turn, so if he wants to make this play, he is have to be prepared to bet river and I really dont like this play in his shoes, especially if he holding second pair. I also think that this wont be working anyway. Top pair BVB is such a strong hand to fold and you rarely find an opponent who is capable to fold here.
There are basically three options. He value bets his Q type hands, he hits his flush (maybe TJ for straight) or he is bluffing here. I actually may find call on the river sometimes, however you of course need to know if the player you are standing against if capable to make this play. If he is good reg, he probably wont turning his A high to a bluff on that board, so you are good here. If I decided to make this play, I will call the turn and than call the river like 90% of times. If I dont want to make this play, I will probably just fold the turn.
June 19, 2012
This is an active reg in position on a relatively dry flop. I expect him to be floating you here quite frequently. That being said, i would be check-raising this turn. I prefer this to double barreling as it allows him to put in the bluff that he oh so wants to do, and it also has the added benefit that he might bet-fold a weak pair, that would have called if we had just bet again. I don’t like the check-call on the turn so much as he can still have a bunch of “floats” that beat you, A-highs, maybe hes trying to protect bottom pair etc.
As played I’m folding the river. A whole bunch of flush combos are definitly in your perceived range so it would be a brave bullet to fire from him if he is bluffing.
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