Fire,

I think VPIPing 100% against a small raise from the SB is reasonable. I’m still not clear on what you mean by “stop and go” in this context or why that should cause Hero to fold pre-flop.

Surely you agree that if V were jamming this would be an easy call with any two? The question, then, is only whether the post-flop action will be so unfavorable for Hero as to turn an otherwise profitable call into a fold. Given that Hero has position, I find that hard to believe. You’re right that shallower stacks cause position to be less valuable, but they also make questions of domination less of a concern.

Fire said:

Foucault said:

Surely you agree that if V were jamming this would be an easy call with any two? The question, then, is only whether the post-flop action will be so unfavorable for Hero as to turn an otherwise profitable call into a fold.

Uh, no? Why should you call with any two here?? Hero has over 12 BB left, I calculated it, even if V was jamming any two (which is obv quite unrealistic) calling with any of the bottom 45% is -EV.

Sorry, I meant if his raise to 2250 were all in you'd call any two.

Fire said:

Ok, that makes sense. I did not deny that the immediate price is good, but only considering that, one would need to call in a lot of situations where one actually shouldn't (like pretty much every non-3-bet pot). What I like least about the call is that it's just not gonna go like in this hand a lot. I'd guess at least 80 % of time you will face a bet on the flop or turn or even a shove (hence stop and go) and my approach was always to consider future action in whether I want to get involved, especially as stack preservation should be important with under 20 BB. If you 3bet you would need to do this essentially with all the 70 % of hands that are better than Q2o. Maybe ok for some villains, but is highly exploitable.

Well, I do think a lot of people overfold when they are getting good odds to call, especially out of the big blind or when facing a small 3- or 4-bet. However, you're right that you have to consider not just your immediate equity but rather your expected value, or how well you will realize that equity. When you are out of position, you are at a big disadvantage, and virtually all of your hands will have trouble realizing anywhere near their full equity.

When you are in position, though, it shouldn't be as hard. There will be more opportunitities to pick off bluffs, pot control, bluff, and even make good folds, all of which will improve your ability to realize your equity.

It's true that Q2o is still the sort of hand that has trouble realizing its equity, because a lot of that equity is wrapped up in weak hands like no-pair or bottom pair. Position helps with this, but also when you are getting such great odds pre-flop you don't have to realize anywhere near 100% of your equity.

Think about what you are saying here. You are suggesting, perhaps correctly, that Villain will bet most flops. But then you are also suggesting that Hero will somehow lose money when he flops a Queen. How is this possible? How can your opponent bet so often and yet still have your hand beat more often than not when a Queen flops?

Also, you don't have to 3-bet all hands better than Q2o to warrant 3-betting Q2o. Many of those hands will play better as a call. You're that it would make no sense to fold T7s but three-bet Q2o. However, it may well make sense to call T7s but three-bet Q2o.