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Bovada 6k - flop action after donk lead
jasonchr
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May 13, 2014 - 6:21 am
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Interesting spot that come up. No specific reads on villian. I had been pretty aggressive at the table so far.

 

PokerStars Hand #2972631769: Tournament #5446099

$40+$4 – Hold'em No Limit (400/800) –

Seat 1: Small Blind (33,512 in chips)
Seat 2: Big Blind (14,060 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG (18,069 in chips)
Seat 4: UTGplus1 (34,571 in chips)
Seat 5: UTGplus2 (14,458 in chips)
Seat 6: jasonchr (44,884 in chips)
Seat 7: UTGplus4 (15,509 in chips)
Seat 9: Dealer (32,551 in chips)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jasonchr Kdiamond Qheart
UTG: folds
UTGplus1: calls 800
UTGplus2: folds
jasonchr: raises 2800 to 2800
UTGplus4: folds
Dealer: folds
Small Blind: folds
Big Blind: folds
UTGplus1: calls 2000

*** FLOP ***  Qdiamond Aheart Jheart
UTGplus1: bets 2400
jasonchr: ? 

MSpringer
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May 13, 2014 - 9:19 am
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Without any reads it feels like a blocker bet with a weak ace but the sizing seems a bit large for that.

theginger45

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May 13, 2014 - 9:30 am
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He can certainly make this bet with worse hands, and we have decent playability on future streets, so I don't see much reason to fold right away given that it's quite a small bet. Probably folding to a decent sized bet on a blank turn card, though.

Foucault

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May 13, 2014 - 10:11 am
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Don't fold, and don't raise.

jasonchr
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May 13, 2014 - 10:25 am
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Thanks for the feedback so far. Definitely agree folding is out of the question. So what are the benefits of calling vs. raising? If weak aces do make up a decent part of his range, could raising here get enough folds to be profitable? Or calling to pot control and re evaluate on the turn?

theginger45

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May 13, 2014 - 10:30 am
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In most instances, if he's a weak enough player to donkbet you with an Ax hand here, he's probably not going to fold it. Raising here is just a recipe for valuecutting yourself, not to mention that you're wasting the showdown value you do have.

CCuster 911
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May 14, 2014 - 11:00 pm
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I disagree with ginger here.  But I think we are making differnt assumptions as to the type of villain we are facing.  I dont get the interpretation a lot of villains in this spot will simply call down really bad aces.  I think if he bet pot like 2/3 pot + here I would be worried about getting stationed, but these small bets dont give me that impression.

 

Also we have one of the better hands here to have in our semi bluff range(outside of alrge combos draws which is even debateably NOT a semi bluff).

 

I think I like raising here and setting up a turn shove as a semi bluff.

 

These are the spots I dont mind trying big bluffs.  We also may be getting moeny in ahead if he has a similar hand(KJ/QT/etc) or a flush draw.

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

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Killingbird
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May 15, 2014 - 2:01 pm
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talked about this hand at length the other night with DannyN13.  Excited to see what others have to say, as I think it is a really interesting spot. I now know results so I'll refrain from chiming in though.

KayHayKid
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May 15, 2014 - 5:56 pm
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I think this is a perfect example of a spot I lose money in. 

 

I find myself floating in this spot a ton…and not really knowing what my plan is on a blank turn when Villain leads again or jams. 

 

It just feels like Villains in this spot are leading or shoving blank turns like 90% in these spots in the games I'm playing in and am starting to wonder if this shouldn't be a fold or bet scenario (with the intention of bet/folding to further agression on the flop of course).

 

Super interested in both the hand breakdown on this….and how a US player is playing on Stars… 🙂

Douggyfr3sh
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May 15, 2014 - 10:53 pm
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Foucault said:

Don't fold, and don't raise.

Def agree with the first part, but why not raise??  I discussed this hand a bit with Jason on Skype, and before reading anyone elses resposnes itt my instinct is that I'm raise/folding flop in this spot like almost all the time, esp. if we don't have any further reads on villain.  

 

I play almost exclusively on Bovada and in my experience this line is exteremly weak, although the ep limp does suggest a lot of Ax hands in villain's range.  Having said that, I think that villain here can def. bet/fold weak Aces.  DISCLAIMER: I do know results at this point, but am trying not to let that affect my post.  My thought was the same before knowing results.  I think calling here also puts us in a tuff spot on a ton of turns, like every turn that is a brick, for example.  What are we doing when an x turns and villain leads out very small agian?  What about when he checks an x turn?  I think raise/folding flop makes the hand much more easy to play and sets us up for better turn spots.  If we turn a Q,K,T or heart we barrel and if V does call the flop raise and turn bricks out I'm done with the hand.  

 

I would be willing to make a very large prop bet that villain is probably not capable of bet/raising flops with any hand worse than ours, the exception being huge combo draws.  I even think this type of villain is bet/calling naked flush draws a fair bit.

Foucault

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May 16, 2014 - 8:37 am
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If you think Villain's flop bet is weak, I'm fine with bluff-raising a lot of hands, but why use something as good as KQ that could be ahead and also that has equity to lose if it folds to a 3-bet? Just because you have a good bluffing spot doesn't mean you should bluff with 100% of your non-monster hands.

jasonchr
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May 16, 2014 - 11:42 am
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Thanks for the feedback guys. KayHayKid, the PokerStars format is just my HH converter for Bovada 🙂 But I wish it was real wink!

 

I respect the guys who are arguing for a call (and who are obviously a lot better than me) but the only way I could see making that play is if I thought the villian was a good/tricky reg (for all the reasons Cody & Doug mentioned). If villian has K 10 or Q J (only “monster” hands I could see him limp calling with) then I'm 99% sure he's check raising. So I'm really not worried at all about having to fold to a 3B. In the moment I narrowed his range down to weak Ax hands and draws he is trying to get a cheap price on. 

 

I raised to 7500 and he folded. When I pulled up the HH file, villian folded Aclub9club.

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