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February 10, 2014
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Okay, so I'm running relatively well and playing well in the nightly $12.5K on Bovada. Villain seems adept. I haven't been at the table for more than about 1/2 hour, but I've seen him play relatively actively, with what I would consider to be good sizing and solid ranges. Not quite out of line, but definitely thinking.
Blinds are 150/300 30 ante
BB (HERO – 10,283) has Ah Ks
UTG (2,545) folds
UTG+1 (8,689) folds
UTG+2 (13,355) folds
UTG+3 (V1 – 4,017) bets 630
UTG+4 (6,999) folds
BTN (V2 – 10,967) calls 630
SB (2,652) folds
Hero Flats 630
Pot: 2,190
FLOP: 5s, Qh, 5h
Hero checks
V1 – Checks
V2 – bets 600
Hero – Flats 600
V1 – Folds
Pot: 3,390
TURN: 7h
Hero Checks
V2 – Checks
RIVER: 8s
HERO???
I chose to float the flop cause I thought I was likely still ahead and at least had overs and backdoor draw. I planned to bet/fold turn, but his check on the turn confused me.
Thoughts on all streets please? Should I be 3-betting out of position with this stack size pre?
Thoughts? I'll post results after a few comments.
Thanks in advance!
April 8, 2013
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Being that the Hijack only has 13bb Im definitely 3 betting. I actually dont think jamming is bad. You have 34bb so normally that would be too big but that is the effective stack with the btn who is just never gonna wake up with a hand in this spot.
As played I really dont like the call on the flop. The original raiser is left to act behind you and even when he folds you go to the turn oop with A high and no real draw. I also dont think you should bet this river. This is the problem with floating out of position. You cant dictate the action so it becomes really hard to effectively bluff.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Definitely, absolutely, 100% mandatory 3bet preflop. We need to be getting it in for value vs the 13bb stack here, and even if he folds we get value from the button. I think shoving would actually be pretty terrible because of how much value we lose from the button – he can definitely flat our 3bet with a bunch of hands we dominate.
On flop, I guess I don't completely hate the call, but it's really awkward. You're drawing to 6 outs or fewer a ton of the time. Would definitely fold to a bigger bet. No reason not to check turn.
River is interesting. I think it's reasonably unlikely villain has Qx given his small flop sizing and turn check, so leading out for about 1500 here might get him to fold some of those middle pair hands in his range. However, if he's passive/bad enough to make that weird flop bet sizing, he might not fold often enough, and he might also check back with a lot of hands we actually beat. Not sure it's the best spot to turn AK into a bluff but I wouldn't mind it. If we check and he bets a reasonable sizing, almost certainly folding. You don't see the bet/check/bet line as a bluff in multiway pots on dry boards very often, and with good reason.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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theginger45 said:
Definitely, absolutely, 100% mandatory 3bet preflop. We need to be getting it in for value vs the 13bb stack here, and even if he folds we get value from the button. I think shoving would actually be pretty terrible because of how much value we lose from the button – he can definitely flat our 3bet with a bunch of hands we dominate.
On flop, I guess I don't completely hate the call, but it's really awkward. You're drawing to 6 outs or fewer a ton of the time. Would definitely fold to a bigger bet. No reason not to check turn.
River is interesting. I think it's reasonably unlikely villain has Qx given his small flop sizing and turn check, so leading out for about 1500 here might get him to fold some of those middle pair hands in his range. However, if he's passive/bad enough to make that weird flop bet sizing, he might not fold often enough, and he might also check back with a lot of hands we actually beat. Not sure it's the best spot to turn AK into a bluff but I wouldn't mind it. If we check and he bets a reasonable sizing, almost certainly folding. You don't see the bet/check/bet line as a bluff in multiway pots on dry boards very often, and with good reason.
I agree about 3-betting pre. Folding flop is out of the question, you're getting like 4.5:1 and could still be ahead, not to mention you have the backdoor draws.
When you're unsure where you stand or how your opponent will respond to a bet, consider your own range. If AK is one of the weakest hands you'd call the flop with (and I suspect that it is, considering that flush draws got there on the turn), then bluff with it.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Yeah, you've sold me on calling flop. I actually thought it was the 13bb guy who bet out.
And yeah great point about the river. I guess AK isn't quite the bottom of our range here since we can still have some T9hh type hands, but it's probably still pretty low down.
February 10, 2014
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Thanks for the replies.
So one of the reasons I posted this hand is that I think one of my bigger leaks is when I'm in this 20-35 BB range, with a good starting hand, facing either multi-way or a bet in front.
I really struggle with what my 3-bet sizing should be because I don't love blindly piling this many chips, but I start to feel way too committed with a large 3-bet, and think I default to just folding or calling hands I should be 3-betting way too often. Especially when I'm out of position. Basically playing like a nit.
Deep down, I knew this was a preflop 3-bet. Can I get some thoughts on what my 3-bet sizing should have been in this exact spot?
I'll also post results after this as well (Hint: I did fire out 1,222 on the river)….. 🙂
Thanks again!
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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As with other pre-flop spots, your sizing shouldn't be specific to the hand that you have, so let's look at features of the situation to see what they tell us about sizing. You've got one player, the original raiser, who is quite shallow, and another with whom you have a deeper effective stack size.
You're right that any 3-bet will commit you against the shorter player, but there's no need to commit against the deeper player. With this particular hand I'd be willing to get all-in against either of them, but again that's not what we're thinking about. In this spot you will have a range for 3-betting and getting it in against either player (say, 99+,AQ+) and also a range for 3-betting to get it in with the shorter player but folding if the deeper one comes back over the top. This range could be much wider, depending on how often you think you will get folds, and how wide you think the original raiser's getting it in range will be.
The point is that you want to raise the same amount with both ranges, so that your opponents won't be able to deduce which you have. This helps to protect your 3-bet-fold range from bluffs (ie if you 3-bet 66 to get it in agains the raiser, you don't want the caller jamming QJs over the top of you). And of course when you do 3-bet-fold, you'd like to lose as little as possible.
So what we're really looking for here is the smallest raise that will put the original raiser to a push/fold decision and that also, if he folds, will give you some fold equity against the caller. I'd go for about 1800, and again, with this hand, I think it's a very clear call if either player shoves over the top.
February 10, 2014
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Thanks Andrew.
RESULTS:
I tanked for a bit (purposely – I'd tank/value-bet a hand on the river with the nuts awhile back and thought I could rep. something like that here and get him to fold some of his worse-Q made hands) and shot out a 1,222 bet.
He didn't think long before calling and showed QJ.
I was happy with the river bet even after I lost, because I didn't have a ton of Q's in his range, and didn't want to check/fold, but I wanted to know if you guys thought this was somehow a spewy bet on the river.
I learned that I should have 3-bet this pre and been happy to get it in, take my pot, or play out-of-position with the initiative.
Thanks again!
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