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June 11, 2012
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hey all,
its been a while for me posting hands as i was not playing much in 2014. anyway from now on i will post again more.
here first hand out of 3 from the big162.
Situation:
early in big162 pre ante
we played straightforward lost few chips bc of calling pre with PPs and so on. image is def on the nittier side
villain: is aggro reg(no crusher), with lots of raises playing 34/22 with about 25% MP raise
players behind all TAG to NITs
Poker Stars $150+$12 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t25/t50 Blinds – 8 players – View hand 2466241
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Renchi1975 (BTN): t3730 74.60 BBs
guitarpiano (SB): t3235 64.70 BBs
23_lakeres (BB): t3000 60 BBs
RozTheRipper (UTG): t2427 48.54 BBs
Joe Santana (UTG+1): t2795 55.90 BBs
JKHOSSY (MP1): t3075 61.50 BBs
Hero (MP2): t2725 54.50 BBs
KaptianKush (CO): t3750 75 BBs
Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is MP2 with T
A
2 folds, JKHOSSY raises to t150, Hero raises to t405, 4 folds, JKHOSSY calls t255
OR villain is about AA-22,AKo-ATo,KQo-KTo,QJo-QTo,JTo,AKs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s (23%)
his calling range i say: TT-22,AJo-ATo,KQo-KTo,QJo-QTo,JTo,AJs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s,87s,76s (18%) as his fto3b is 25% and flats 75% (attention small sample size)
so idecide to 3bet here.
Questions about preflop:
1.) sizing
pre ante i tend to 3b bit bigger. to me 2.7x IP is ok might be bit lower closer to 2.4x
a) what s your take on that?
2.) 3bet range construction
for value: AA-TT,AKo-AQo,AKs-ATs those are 57 combos to be balanced with bluff combos.
to me it is good here to have bluff combos that play well post flop. so i go for low suited Ax bc of blocker value and flush possibilities and SC and suited one gappers.
–>Bluff range: A5s-A2s,T8s,98s-97s,87s-86s,76s-75s,65s 43combos –> we re bit value heavy but should be ok vs normal regish player
a) how do the ranges look to you?
b) put in some low pp like 22-44 as bluffs? do you actually even have a bluff range here?
well lets go to flop now with the ranges above
3.) Flop: (t885) 2
3
A (2 players)
JKHOSSY checks, Hero ???
range vs range its 60:40 in heros favour. with the actual hand i am 63:37 favour vs the range and we are really only a big dog vs 2P+ (10.5% of the time, we then have 9% equity).
a) what you do with AT here?
b) what part of the range you Cbet and what part you check back?
hope this gets a nice discussion starting.
will reveal my flop action and thinking once we got few replies.
so long
September 5, 2013
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1a) Sizing is fine (something between 375-450)
2a) Considering this question I have a couple of questions for you
– What's your plan with ATs, do you want to stack it off vs 4bs or 3 to 5bet shoving?
– What's your plan for the suited and ofsuit broadways you don't mention in your range? ( Are you always flatting/Folding those?)
– Are you always 3betting hands like T8s, 87s etc.
2b) Not 3betting small pp's because we are deep enough to setmine
And yes, If you 3b for value you should have a 3b bluff range.
3) Cbetting almost 100% on this board
June 11, 2012
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pckrrr said:
1a) Sizing is fine (something between 375-450)
2a) Considering this question I have a couple of questions for you
– What’s your plan with ATs, do you want to stack it off vs 4bs or 3 to 5bet shoving?
No i am not stacking off here with ATs. Especially not vs this villain who flats a lot of 3bets instead of 4betting. i think i can 3bet here for value bc he flats with a lot weaker Ax. The times he 4bets and we have to fold i guess are not often
– What’s your plan for the suited and ofsuit broadways you don’t mention in your range? ( Are you always flatting/Folding those?)
shall i really reveal all my plays here 😀 mostly i flat suited broadways and fold the ofsuits
– Are you always 3betting hands like T8s, 87s etc.
nothing in poker is absolut 😀
2b) Not 3betting small pp’s because we are deep enough to setmine
And yes, If you 3b for value you should have a 3b bluff range.
3) Cbetting almost 100% on this board
btw very nice discussion going on. hopefully others join
TPE Pro
September 28, 2012
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Good post.
Pre Flop Size: Good
Ranges: I probably flat a decent amount with AT-Ako here and sometimes things like AJ/AQs,. I think there is a lot of value in underrepping good aces against aggro players when its too deep to realistically get it in pre. I think both your ranges are too wide, but I have a feeling you are saying that those are possible and not guaranteed 3 bets. I like them if thats the case. I probably only 3 bet like 10% of the time ehre, but my possible ranges are about what you have.
Flop: I bet here a vast majority(like 75-80%) If the board was A27 Iwould check. I think theres a lot of value to be had when its fairly safe 3 stragiht like that. I am c betting pretty wide here. Probably everything that is in my semi-bluff/bluff range(which presumably misses unless its a fd). I should probably just say my cehcking range since thats smaller. I check back all PPs and occasionally good aces like this one.
For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion
September 5, 2013
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Agree with most, but why do you want to check behind PPs? I think it's oke to check Kings, but I think it's really bad to check the rest of the PPs. Hero can easily bet QQ and JJ for value and I don't really want to play a guessing game OTT. Besides that you leave your options open on the turn.
June 11, 2012
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CCuster 911 said:
Good post.
Pre Flop Size: Good
Ranges: I probably flat a decent amount with AT-Ako here and sometimes things like AJ/AQs,. I think there is a lot of value in underrepping good aces against aggro players when its too deep to realistically get it in pre. I think both your ranges are too wide, but I have a feeling you are saying that those are possible and not guaranteed 3 bets. I like them if thats the case. I probably only 3 bet like 10% of the time ehre, but my possible ranges are about what you have.
yes i am not always 3betting that range here. The range was just to get a feeling for theoretical range in that spot. Dont like to analyze HH with just the actual hand prefer to look with tools like Flopzilla what to do with my range
Flop: I bet here a vast majority(like 75-80%) If the board was A27 Iwould check. I think theres a lot of value to be had when its fairly safe 3 stragiht like that. I am c betting pretty wide here. Probably everything that is in my semi-bluff/bluff range(which presumably misses unless its a fd). I should probably just say my cehcking range since thats smaller. I check back all PPs and occasionally good aces like this one.
June 11, 2012
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pckrrr said:
Agree with most, but why do you want to check behind PPs? I think it's oke to check Kings, but I think it's really bad to check the rest of the PPs. Hero can easily bet QQ and JJ for value and I don't really want to play a guessing game OTT. Besides that you leave your options open on the turn.
hmm kind of torned about PPs as villain is most likely calling lots of Ax pre. We prob have to bet them once and then see how we continue.
Still tricky if we bet flop, check turn and face a bet on river vs aggro player.
June 11, 2012
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so lets see turn and river:
Turn: (t885) 2
3
A 8
(2 players)
JKHOSSY 450, Hero calls
In game i figured that Villain i thought of going for two streets be the best here. And as the board is pretty dry i figured a check might be the best line as it will induce the most bluffs by villain.
Now turn he leads.
Any argument in doing anything else than calling?
River: (t1785) 2 3 A 7 (2 players)
JKHOSSY checks, Hero bets ???
On river villain checks this means he actually has some sort of SD value or maybe a busted draw on which he gave up. so i assume we can bet for value here.
How much you?
What do you do if faced a raise?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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1. All other things being equal, absence of antes is a reason to 3b smaller, not bigger. It means you are laying yourself a less good price to win the pot immediately, Villain is getting less good odds on a call, etc. Deeper stacks are a reason to 3b bigger, and all in all I think your sizing is fine, just wanted to address that comment.
2. Low PPs are bad 3-betting candidates against players who flat often, because you need to do a lot of post-flop bluffing against people who call too wide pre-flop, and low PPs are really bad for post-flop bluffing.
3. I also think this is a bad spot to set mine. Just because there's enough money in the stacks doesn't mean you can profitably call with pocket pairs. The problem is that Villain's range is so wide there's no guarantee you'll win much even if you hit your set. Not to mention with a few people still to act behind you you aren't guaranteed to see the flop if you call. I'd just fold the smallest PPs and only call with hands that I would at least sometimes continue unimproved (probably 77+)
4. Best hands to check: biggest pocket pairs, weakest Aces in your 3-betting range, Kd Qd or Kd Jd if you 3-bet those. Since you should be betting most of the time after raising pre-flop, it's easiest to build your range by thinking about which are the best hands to check and then bet everything else. The hands I mention have the least to gain by betting (meaning they aren't in great shape if called but can't get a lot of better hands to fold) and are always difficult to draw out on.
5. I don't follow your logic about betting pocket pairs because Villain has a lot of Ax in his range. Wouldn't that be an argument for checking them?
6. @pckrr “I don't really want to play a guessing game OTT”
What would your checking range look like?
October 25, 2013
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Really like Foucault point on not being a good spot to set mine even though the stacks are deep enough. Never really looked at it like this but makes perfect sense. I would be value betting river as played as I think we are often ahead of his range . And I can’t see a lot of hands that he’s going to reraise us with. What are our value targets though ? pocket pairs that he’s stabbed at on the turn? Weak aces ? I think he has a lot of missed fd’s aswell so what would people’s thoughts on sizing be?
September 5, 2013
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Took another look at it and don't fully agree with my post. I play alot of HU lately so my ranges were wrong.
I check KK, because we don't have blockers for Ax combo's and we do block a big part of villains 3b/c range. So the % of Ax combo's in villains range increases and the % of broadways etc. decreases. So we want to keep the range wide.
More or less the same argument for checking JJ.
I think we can valuebet QQ. I probably check behind my QdQx pockets and bet the others.
I do want to bet TT because there are a lot of awful turn cards. Because of our check OTF we don’t rep a lot of aces. So villain is going to stab a lot on scary turn cards that don’t hit hero’s perceived range and do hit villains perceived range.
It’s neither betting for value betting or betting as a bluff, but it just makes the hand easier to play. There is a significant probability of a K,Q or J on the turn or river which decreases the value of our hand alot and increases the value of the perceived range of villain. I think the EV of betting the flop and win the pot is higher than the EV of checking the flop and play the guessing game OTT and OTR vs a good villain.
TPE Pro
September 28, 2012
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pckrrr said:
Agree with most, but why do you want to check behind PPs? I think it's oke to check Kings, but I think it's really bad to check the rest of the PPs. Hero can easily bet QQ and JJ for value and I don't really want to play a guessing game OTT. Besides that you leave your options open on the turn.
My 3 bet range f PPs here is bassically JJ-AA. So betting them on flop isnt all that great for a couple reasons.
1. its not a 3 street hand a vast majority of the time.
2. Aggro players tend to be more bluff heavy
3. pot control
The only reason I can see to bettnig is to value draws and not let them get another card for free. I think the positives outweight the negatives here.
For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion
TPE Pro
September 28, 2012
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florianm1 said:
so lets see turn and river:
Turn: (t885) 2
3
A
(2 players)
JKHOSSY 450, Hero calls
In game i figured that Villain i thought of going for two streets be the best here. And as the board is pretty dry i figured a check might be the best line as it will induce the most bluffs by villain.
Now turn he leads.
Any argument in doing anything else than calling?
River: (t1785) 2
JKHOSSY checks, Hero bets ???
On river villain checks this means he actually has some sort of SD value or maybe a busted draw on which he gave up. so i assume we can bet for value here.
How much you?
What do you do if faced a raise?
Like the line so far. Sometimes with reads I can get FPS-y here and raise turn for value. But raise really small like 2.2-2.4x(1025 or something in this case) his bet. I defualt to calling though.
As played on river its an easy bet and like you said he is either calling with something like 99-jj, or an ace, or has a bluff. I dont thnk he ever checks a hand that beats you outside of AJ occasionally and maybe a random AQ thrown in. So thats like8 combos of hands to worry about and somethnig like 13-15 we beat. I would probably go like 750 here and be happy with it.
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