Home
(1 votes) 
January 29, 2016
Offline
With this hand, I am most concerned about the possible ways to steal the pot postflop. And plz school me on my call pre-flop, bad idea? I feel I should have some 3bets in there pre as well.
Thx! wokka wokka!
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) – 350/700 NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
Hero (BTN): 19,851
SB: 32,518 (VPIP: 26.39, PFR: 4.29, 3Bet Preflop: 6.90, Hands: 74)
BB: 11,934 (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 25.64, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 39)
UTG: 4,790 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
UTG+1: 36,132 (VPIP: 27.03, PFR: 20.55, 3Bet Preflop: 25.93, Hands: 74)
MP: 73,905 (VPIP: 29.73, PFR: 25.68, 3Bet Preflop: 13.04, Hands: 74)
MP+1: 65,169 (VPIP: 24.05, PFR: 8.97, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 80)
CO: 23,956 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 10.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 89)
8 players post ante of 70, SB posts SB 350, BB posts BB 700
Pre Flop: (pot: 1,610) Hero has T
J
fold, fold, MP raises to 1,400, fold, CO calls 1,400, Hero calls 1,400, fold, BB calls 700
Flop: (6,510, 4 players) K
K
6
BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero checks
Turn: (6,510, 4 players) Q
BB bets 3,255, MP calls 3,255, CO calls 3,255, Hero calls 3,255
River: (19,530, 4 players) 7
BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero checks
Hero shows T J (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 47%, Flop 29%, Turn 31%)
BB shows 5 4 (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 23%, Flop 6%, Turn 0%)
MP shows 9 6 (Two Pair, Kings and Sixes)
(Pre 30%, Flop 65%, Turn 69%)
MP wins 19,530
June 2, 2013
Offline
To steal the pot post flop you need to make a bet 
With 28bb I probably call IP too, otf I may take a small stab at, 1/3 pot will make it, this is a board that is hard for people to hit, but not impossible for it. If I get two calls I am probably done with the hand unless I improve. HU pot I take another small stab ott with OESD; if more than one call otf, I take a free card.
Looking at the results MP was going to check call flop and turn, I am not sure I was going to shove river if it was HU pot after I take small stab otf, after he raises pre, check/call twice. I am curious if I should, considering bets of 1/3 pot, and HU pot. Bet otr will be about 70% pot, all in, if I calculate it right.
January 29, 2016
Offline
Thank you almo. Haha, make a bet. Lemme write that down. 
I do appreciate the feedback and all the extra advice, good stuff! I definitely agree with slowing down, likely to a halt, if I were to get any callers on a flop stab. But first, a bet would be in order. 😉
What does OESD mean, btw?
June 2, 2013
Offline
WillyWokka said
What does OESD mean, btw?
OESD = open ended str8 draw
July 12, 2013
Offline
I’d like to know MP’s F3b%. He’s playing 30/26/13. Even just knowing that I may 3b iso a 2x open since we’re often gonna get BB calling and I’d rather play the hand HU w initiative.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Offline
I think flatting pre is fine, it’s not a great hand to squeeze with since it blocks a lot of the lower parts of MP’s opening range and CO’s flatting range.
Flop is fine, turn is close. I think the turn is the key part of the hand here. You’re getting 5 to 1, so you only need around 17% equity to call profitably, but even if your 8 outs are all good 100% of the time, you only have around 16-17%. Since there’s a flush draw out there your hearts might be dead some %, and it’s also a paired board, meaning you’re dead versus a slowplayed KK/66 or a turned KQ/QQ.
Calling with mediocre draws like this on the turn with just one card to come is always a tricky prospect. If you have some implied odds to work with when you hit, or some bluffing possibilities, then it can be okay in a heads-up pot, but here it’s a dicey situation – players’ ranges are mostly fairly weak here, except for the few slowplays and turned boats that crush you, so you can’t expect to win a lot if you do hit. You’re also going to find it fairly tough to bluff three players on the river.
I would say that turn is probably okay, but it’s much more marginal than people are likely to think. River is not a spot where I would bluff, there are a lot of Qx hands in ranges out there and none of them are folding.
February 8, 2017
Offline
I can’t believe I’m disagreeing with theginger, but I think this is a fold preflop against all but the softest lineups. You’re calling 1/15th of your stack to go 3+ way to a flop with an easily dominated hand that isn’t going to love any flop that isn’t 2 pair+ or a draw. Are you ever happy stacking off multi-way on a J high flop? No bueno in my books.
Fold turn IMO as played, your stack is too small to speculate when u could be drawing dead.
March 29, 2016
Offline
I would agree with DuckinDaDeck. I wouldn’t play this hand 3+way with 25BB stack, even though you are on the button.
Let’s say the flop comes 57J rainbow. You would have to call at least one bet with your J which could be easily dominated. Given the pot on the flop is 9BB, you would have to put ~4BB to call. So on the turn you’d have 19BB stack and a pot of ~17BB (vs 1 opponent). Do you get it in then with your JT?
That’s just an example. It’s hard to flop something really good multiway with JT as even if you flop top pair, your kicker is medicore.
I’d rather keep my 25BB stack for some better spot.
June 2, 2013
Offline
I still like the call, hero has 28bb and the buton, we will have to play some post flop after, but is not that hard since we will have a marginal hand most of the time, not all boards will be bad, or really good.
On a J high flop we can call a cbet, and make pot control, V won´t always have overcards or better Jacks, only some part of the time. Probably calling 2 bets on J high flop.
February 5, 2015
Offline
What gives with the decimal places on the player HUD stats? Are edges getting this small?
August 17, 2017
Offline
I’m fine with taking a shot on the flop, but it’s not egregious to call preflop and check give up postflop.
Oftentimes, we watch poker on TV and assume we have to be super active to get a lot done.
I literally did next to nothing to get to my WPT final table last year. I just waited for the psychos to overplay against me, and I leveraged my stack in a few key spots. The real skill edge was in waiting hours…and hours…and hours…without overplaying something, without seeing ghosts.
February 5, 2015
Offline
No question: one of the fundamental tournament poker skills is knowing when to be patient and when to hit the gas…and I get the sense that it is often got right thru Zen-like game-flow intuitivism (if that’s a word), rather than reasoning or logic. Often, my successes come when I detatch logic and give in to feel. Intuition is the bridge between the conscious and subconscious minds.
But when I get it wrong waiting it out patiently I kick myself…like why did I let myself get blinded away…AGAIN?
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Offline
DuckinDaDeck said
I can’t believe I’m disagreeing with theginger, but I think this is a fold preflop against all but the softest lineups. You’re calling 1/15th of your stack to go 3+ way to a flop with an easily dominated hand that isn’t going to love any flop that isn’t 2 pair+ or a draw. Are you ever happy stacking off multi-way on a J high flop? No bueno in my books.Fold turn IMO as played, your stack is too small to speculate when u could be drawing dead.
Who said we’re stacking off multi-way every time we flop top pair? Obviously we’re not doing that. We’re flatting on the assumption that we can make good, flexible decisions depending on the runout and action (just like every other spot), not because we’re just trying to make a hand, get it in and hope for the best. Waiting for flops that you love is a recipe for being a nit.
If we flop top pair, face a bet and we really, truly believe villain’s range to consist purely of overpairs, we just fold it. The only problem with flatting comes when we start making postflop mistakes – being a weak postflop player is definitely a reason to play tighter, but the real issue is to stop making postflop mistakes, not just tighten up to the point of waiting for strong hands.
People play very passively in multi-way pots and ranges are usually face-up. Our hand is one that gets to realize its equity reasonably easily, because of the frequency with which it will check around to us on the flop, as it did in this spot. The blinds are likely not squeezing anywhere near enough preflop, which also allows us to realize way more of our equity than we should be allowed to here. In the CO this is a comfortable fold, but I’m fine with the flat on the button when guaranteed position. If you’re passing up these spots, you’re probably playing too tight, IMO.
February 8, 2017
Offline
Yeah, I worded that very poorly, and I don’t think I agree with past DDD anyway. It’s true that ranges are often face up multi-way, and having guaranteed position is a big plus. I think you are quite right that this is a good spot if you’re not making post-flop mistakes.
I think I shy away from spots like this when I’m playing near my max (or probably too many) tables, but during the first few days of the current series I’ve been playing fewer tables at a time, and I’m actively looking for spots like this.
Curious, would you prefer to have JTo or 75s here?
Most Users Ever Online: 2780
Currently Online:
29 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
bennymacca: 2616
Foucault: 2067
folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133
praetor: 1033
theginger45: 924
P-aire 146: 832
Turbulence: 768
The Riceman: 731
duggs: 591
florianm1: 588
Newest Members:
CSerpent
KJ
Tillery999
sdmathis89
ne0x00
adrianvaida2525
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 24
Topics: 12705
Posts: 75003
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1063
Members: 12010
Moderators: 2
Admins: 5
Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos
Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1
