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September 30, 2013
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This is a spot I feel I encounter often as shortstacked and wonder what the best play is. We are 20 players from the money and since it’s Big 3,30 on Stars we are roughly 795 players and 773 get paid.
We have just below 10 BB and after posting big blind we are left with 11800 in our stack. We have no fold equity on a shove.Is this a spot where I should always fold a hand like AJ or should I call?
I also wanted to ask, same situation 20 players from bubble but we are dealt the same hand in early position, is it a fold or a shove?
No Limit Holdem Tournament PokerStars
8 Players
$3.00+$0.30
Blinds 700/1,400 8
UTG Barguzdm 9,267
UTG+1 VoikAs 85,327
MP1 FrenG1990 50,068
MP2 gruszkin144 5,911
CO jecky21 28,431
D otaviobraga 27,515
SB zolf1991 56,597
BB Hero 13,375
8 3,675 Hero is BB J A
2 folds, VoikAs raises to 3,500, 5 folds
April 4, 2016
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Big Caveat before I comment: I am a novice! I could easily be completely wrong in my logic. I am just posting my opinion on this issue. Please feel free to correct me as you see fit. Now here it is…
I’d fold more often than not.
To me however there are couple of factors that I do consider :
A) The original opener is the big stack at the table, more likely opening wider than average though he is opening from EP…somewhat of argument to jam as I would think I’d be ahead of his range majority of time? (AJo – 70+ % equity if you got him dominated, 60% equity if u are up against 2 inferior live cards like KQ, QT etc, flip vs pocket pairs that are lower and etc..)
B) Where am I in the standings, how likely am I to finish in the money? I mean if I am short stacked, (less than 10 bb and on the borderline in standings, then I would choose to grind it out and make sure to at least min cash) why? if I am that short stacked, then getting overly aggressive to accumulate chips, I would subsequently have to take more risks, but the chips I win (most likely in flip situations), how much increase in tournament equity is that going to equate to? I’ve heard often ‘awww min cash doesn’t mean shit…blah blah…’ but I actually think it’s pretty important especially if I am near the bottom of the standing short stacked on the money bubble. The difference in money jump between 0 and min cash, you often won’t see that amount of money jump in prize ladder until near the final table bubble (assuming 200-300 entrants approx.). So I try to secure the min cash first and then move onto next business. You must min cash first in order to possibly go all the way..
June 18, 2012
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rabbhit said
This is a spot I feel I encounter often as shortstacked and wonder what the best play is. We are 20 players from the money and since it’s Big 3,30 on Stars we are roughly 795 players and 773 get paid.We have just below 10 BB and after posting big blind we are left with 11800 in our stack. We have no fold equity on a shove.Is this a spot where I should always fold a hand like AJ or should I call?
I also wanted to ask, same situation 20 players from bubble but we are dealt the same hand in early position, is it a fold or a shove?
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter
No Limit Holdem Tournament PokerStars
8 Players
$3.00+$0.30
Blinds 700/1,400 8
UTG Barguzdm 9,267
UTG+1 VoikAs 85,327
MP1 FrenG1990 50,068
MP2 gruszkin144 5,911
CO jecky21 28,431
D otaviobraga 27,515
SB zolf1991 56,597
BB Hero 13,375Preflop
8 3,675 Hero is BB J A
2 folds, VoikAs raises to 3,500, 5 foldsFinal Pot 7,175
Also are there any reads on the big stack? Is he opening frequently? If so I would be shoving everyday. Also I am just a novice grinding the micros and trying to get an understanding of this as well. But Dmasta makes a good point as well about min cashing and carrying on. Would like to hear someone else though
April 4, 2016
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I agree…it’s definitely not a clear cut choice. However due to my skill level, I generally lean toward taking the cautious line since I am often unsure in a lot of these borderline situations. Maybe once I get through TPE U, I will have gained enough knowledge to get my agro on with more confidence and shove on the loose big stack open without hesitation. 
June 2, 2013
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I don´t like to wait and mini cash. What I mean is that you can´t pass on profitable pots for make 1.x buy in back; not that you should play a crazy fish.
AJ I need more to shove, if V is opening a wide range I shove for sure, there is some cases I do stop and go, but not often. AQ is probably a shove for me here.
AJo 10bb from EP? I shove too, if no one has open before me.
Maybe slowdown when you won satelites to play, and is like $500 and that is ahuge bonus for your bankroll, but even then is a mistake, you should play to win MTTs
September 30, 2013
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Thanks for the responses.
I left out some information on V on purpose. Only had a small hand sample, like 24 hands and he was running 33/22 or something (at work so can’t check HM2). But since he had a really big stack I didn’t put much notice into his stats over a small sample since he could just be taking advantage of that big stack with aggressive preflop play.
My personal thought process when I reviewed the hand after my session is: Best case scenario is that I double up to a 20bb stack and worst case scenario is that I bust on the bubble.
Since it is a big field, still 773 players left after bubble breaks there is a long way to a descent cash and while doubling through would help me reach that more often, cashing should still be a goal with a 10bb stack unless I pick up a premium hand. If I’m the first in the pot it’s a different story, I’m focusing this post on situations where another player is in the pot and we have no fold equity.
Had the same player opened in late position I will most likely always shove this hand since his range should contain way more hands that will be dominated then if he opens in early position, this is despite his stats.
So personally I actually like a fold here with AJo more often then taking a chance on busting, even if we only min cash it will help with long term result. Am I wrong thinking this way?
April 4, 2016
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almofadinhas said
I don´t like to wait and mini cash. What I mean is that you can´t pass on profitable pots for make 1.x buy in back; not that you should play a crazy fish.AJ I need more to shove, if V is opening a wide range I shove for sure, there is some cases I do stop and go, but not often. AQ is probably a shove for me here.
AJo 10bb from EP? I shove too, if no one has open before me.
Maybe slowdown when you won satelites to play, and is like $500 and that is ahuge bonus for your bankroll, but even then is a mistake, you should play to win MTTs
I mostly agree with your point. When I grind/wait to min cash is when I am near the bottom (such as 5 players from elimination and I’m in the bottom 10 with a stack somewhere between 5-10 BBs, but maybe I should dial back nitting it up during money bubble to see if I make more deep runs.
almofadinhas…I definitely have seen you at same table on merge. If you run into me during money bubble, try not to exploit me too much 
I know that you know what I know regarding money bubble..
anyways best of luck at the tables and cheers
June 2, 2013
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DMastaC7777 said
almofadinhas…I definitely have seen you at same table on merge. If you run into me during money bubble, try not to exploit me too much
I am usually on 14 tables+ so I am not always aware of bubble, I play micros yet, and I think people don´t respect the buble here, so I am not exploiting bublles yet 🙂
April 10, 2015
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I’m more than happy to shove here. It’s the bubble and big stack is aware of it. AJ with less than 10bbs, with one raiser and closing the action is as good as we can get.
I know we’re risking to bust here, but it eventually puts us back in the game. Getting even shorter could award us not much more than a mincash.
October 30, 2015
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I think a fold is acceptable here. With 10bb and 700+ players to get through to ultimately win, I think you should go for a cash here more than anything – THEN build up your stack to go for the win.
He is in EP, and worst of all, you don’t have fold equity. You’re likely getting it in ahead, but probably like 60%/40% or flipping vs. a pair. If he were LP, it’d be a different story. MAYBE then you’d have some fold equity, but against an EP range, not much.
Fold equity is a big part of shortstack play. If YOU woke up with AJ in EP, that’d be a fine open-jam.
Usually in these spots, I also look to see how many players there are beneath me in the standings in the tournament. If 773 pay and I’m 785 out of 795, I can look for spots to gamble more with a slight advantage (like here) in order to chip up. If I’m above 773, I can usually fold as a 10bb stack and certainly wait for a better spot.
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