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What are the best structured tournaments on Stars? I hear Hagbard say on his video that the Sunday 500 is one of the top three structures available. I know the Daily Ninety Grand 300K on Sundays is pretty good too. What are the others?
What makes these structures good?
Those particular tournaments are miles beyond what I can reasonably afford…so what should I be looking for in a tourney structure at the smaller stakes?
I just recently started to become aware of this. Usually I look at the blind levels, and if they're 15 minutes, I play the tournament, and if they're 10, sometimes I decide to skip it. But I know it's not really that simple. What should I be looking for? (I generally avoid turbos.)
Can the pros give a detailed answer on this? That would be awesome.
July 3, 2010
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Non-Pro response …
The Cubed and Quad MTT's have good structure simply because you'll be so deep stacked for such a long period of time.
I avoid Turbos, too.
FkCoolers said:
Non-Pro response …
The Cubed and Quad MTT's have good structure simply because you'll be so deep stacked for such a long period of time.
I avoid Turbos, too.
Agreed. I enjoy the cubed and quad tourneys too.
I play the $2 and $3 cubed every night (and sometimes stay up waaaaaay too late playing them). Last night I was up until 3 something in the morning finishing about 15 spots out of the money in the $3 cubed. 
Could have folded my way to the mincash, but I don't do that. 
Wish I could play the $5 quad every night, but it would be horrible BRM.
I also like the $3 rebuy. That particular tourney seems to have 10-minute levels on some nights, and 15 on others. Sometimes antes start early, sometimes they don't. I wonder why.
It would be cool if there was a website with detailed information and analysis on the structure of every tournament on the internet. Sounds like a massive project, but seems like it could be a pretty sick feature for TPE.
June 25, 2010
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my favorite structure, well besides the $1r turbo where the blinds get to 300/600 before the add on, is the 11r. Personally I like shallow stack tourneys a little more because I mainly play the MTT turbo sngs. They shallowed out the late game in the 11r and the 5r so you are not playing until 8am the next morning, and there is a lot of play in the 20-30bb range which i feel a lot of players play incorrectly.
July 3, 2010
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Yeah, for sure the most mistakes happen in the 20-30 bb range since that's where you end up living the most. Good point on that.
FkCoolers said:
Non-Pro response …
The Cubed and Quad MTT's have good structure simply because you'll be so deep stacked for such a long period of time.
I avoid Turbos, too.
What are these “cubed and quads” ….where can I find them. I must have them sorted out in the lobby?
swet1 said:
FkCoolers said:
Non-Pro response …
The Cubed and Quad MTT's have good structure simply because you'll be so deep stacked for such a long period of time.
I avoid Turbos, too.
What are these “cubed and quads” ….where can I find them. I must have them sorted out in the lobby?
Cubed means 1R1A. Quad means 2R1A.
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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im really big on the 3k start stack or above and 10 minute blind levels and up any levels shorter than this i considor to be a turbo and i adjust my game accordingly. the more chips at the start allows me to play poker and take a few more calculated risks where 1500 chips i cant because i dont want to give equity away and be short by level 4 or 5. So my suggestion is to scope every lobby before signing up and look for largest start stack and longest blind levels this will allow you to play your game without the fear of the short stack.
jshilling09 said:
my favorite structure, well besides the $1r turbo where the blinds get to 300/600 before the add on, is the 11r. Personally I like shallow stack tourneys a little more because I mainly play the MTT turbo sngs. They shallowed out the late game in the 11r and the 5r so you are not playing until 8am the next morning, and there is a lot of play in the 20-30bb range which i feel a lot of players play incorrectly.
I'm going to try the 1R turbo tonight. What would you say is the best strategy for dealing with these high blind levels during the rebuy period? Do you just start open-shoving as soon as it starts and hope others are willing to flip?
July 3, 2010
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There will be tons of pots with multi-way all-ins… I'll usually open shove trash and show it when they all fold to make the table start getting active and I'll make sure I use the chat box to tell them we all need to gamble to stand a chance.
After that I look to open shove mostly my premiums and I'll get into multi-way all-ins with suited connectors, one gappers, and premiums.
This is one of the few rebuys where I'm not content with a single double up because it moves insanely fast. I want to double and double again which gives you 16k+ since you start with 2,000 and can double rebuy for a 4,000 stack each time.
At 1800 est. the $11 $25k garuantee has a really sick structure starting at level 15) 1k/2k 16) 1250/2500 17) 1500/3000 18) 2k/4k 19) 2.5k/5k. I dont think you will find any tourny at $11 with that slow of blind jumps deep in a tourny.
June 25, 2010
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I wouldn't open shove trash in the $1r because you get 3 callers everytime no matter your image, just wait for pairs and AT+ KQ and open shove them during the rebuy. No one plays real poker. Basically just watch Bigdog's vied for the .50c rebuy and that's what this is like. Just shove a little less than him. then as the blinds go up and the stacks shallow out play it more like a turbo freezeout and shove to steal blinds at that point. There is only one move in this tournament, the all in. Agree with FKcoolers on not being happy for just a single double up. Also always double rebuy, this goes for any rebuy just thought i would mention it.
So I played the 1r tonight…4188 runners, I finished 20th for about 45 bucks. Got AQ in against TT, the board runs out 773QT. Awesome.
goroyalblue said:
At 1800 est. the $11 $25k garuantee has a really sick structure starting at level 15) 1k/2k 16) 1250/2500 17) 1500/3000 18) 2k/4k 19) 2.5k/5k. I dont think you will find any tourny at $11 with that slow of blind jumps deep in a tourny.
Agreed! I look forward to that tourney almost every day.
i understand the desire to play good structures, but at the lower stakes i'd just want to increase my hourly as much as possible and build.
learn push/fold as best you can and keep learning and grind turbos and the MTT SNGs.
build a roll that will let you take shots at the better structured events.
and like everyone else said, the more chips in play and longer the levels=the better the structure. so rebuys, 1r+1a, 2r+1a, etc are your best bet.
Increase hourly…grind turbo SNGs…I guess sometimes what's best for you is what you don't really want to hear.
FkCoolers said:
Yeah, for sure the most mistakes happen in the 20-30 bb range since that's where you end up living the most. Good point on that.
I definitely found this to be true last night. So many people were minraise-folding with 18bb stacks that it was amazing. At times I felt comfortable jamming over a minraise and flat because they obviously weren't calling even though they should have been committed to the pot at that point.
It does suck in the very late stages when you're essentially flipping coins to determine who cashes for $40 and who cashes for $2800.
rivermen123 said:
It does suck in the very late stages when you're essentially flipping coins to determine who cashes for $40 and who cashes for $2800.
this is why it is SO important to understand equities, ranges and ICM. it does suck that at the end of most MTTs you sit there and flip for all the equity, but it's the reality.
so what one must do is just become as good as they can at creating +$EV spots for themselves, understand the dynamics that ICM brings to the game at bubbles and at the FT and learn how to push/fold, raise/call and raise/fold as perfectly as possible.
it's not easy and can be hard work, but the payoffs can be pretty sweet.
also, where's that quote from in your signature?
June 25, 2010
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dude congrats on the finish though. Yeah any time you get KO'ed from a big turbo MTT you feel like you were a flip away from winning it. I recently finished in 6th losing a flip just like you did, AT<99 where i hit my A and he hit his 9, and first place money would have really helped my roll. You just gotta take it and move on. At least you know the structure now and know you can make a deep run. Keep up the good work.
Hagbard Celine said:
also, where's that quote from in your signature?
The Sunday 500 video. You had T8 of diamonds on the button and flatted a raise from the hijack, whiffed the flop, and checked it all the way down. You seemed annoyed that you never took a stab.
Hagbard Celine said:
rivermen123 said:
It does suck in the very late stages when you're essentially flipping coins to determine who cashes for $40 and who cashes for $2800.
this is why it is SO important to understand equities, ranges and ICM. it does suck that at the end of most MTTs you sit there and flip for all the equity, but it's the reality.
so what one must do is just become as good as they can at creating +$EV spots for themselves, understand the dynamics that ICM brings to the game at bubbles and at the FT and learn how to push/fold, raise/call and raise/fold as perfectly as possible.
it's not easy and can be hard work, but the payoffs can be pretty sweet.
Here's a hand that taught me a pretty good lesson about overcommitting your stack, among other things. It's from the final table of the $3 rebuy this past Monday on UB.
Stage #348142987 Tourney ID 5729255 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 20,000 – 2010-09-06 23:45:57 (ET)
Table: 40 (Real Money) Seat #8 is the dealer
Seat 1 – PROFSTABB1 (747,525 in chips)
Seat 4 – FASHO27 (693,031 in chips)
Seat 7 – 02071973 (990,028 in chips)
Seat 8 – GRZAK (479,416 in chips)
PROFSTABB1 – Ante 2,000
FASHO27 – Ante 2,000
02071973 – Ante 2,000
GRZAK – Ante 2,000
PROFSTABB1 – Posts small blind 10,000
FASHO27 – Posts big blind 20,000
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PROFSTABB1 [Ad Ks]
02071973 – Raises 98,000 to 98,000
GRZAK – Calls 98,000
PROFSTABB1 – Raises 308,999 to 318,999
FASHO27 – All-In(Raise) 671,031 to 691,031
02071973 – Folds
GRZAK – Folds
PROFSTABB1 – Calls 372,032
*** FLOP *** [Qc 5s 5c]
*** TURN *** [Qc 5s 5c] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [Qc 5s 5c 3d] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PROFSTABB1 – Shows [Ad Ks] (One pair, fives)
FASHO27 – Shows [Kd Kh] (Two Pair, kings and fives)
FASHO27 Collects 1,586,062 from main pot
What would you do preflop faced with that ridiculous 5x open and call? I thought the open represented a pretty wide range (he just became the chip leader and is trying to bully — he doesn't really want action), and the flat (which is pretty bad too given his stack size) could conceivably be a worse ace. I don't think that guy is capable of flatting with AA/KK. (Both seemed like very bad players and absurd as it may sound, I'd be OK with folding AK here and outplaying them later.)
My 3bet is humongous, but that's because of their retarded sizing. It still could have been a lot smaller though, right? I was fairly certain I was ahead of their ranges, flipping at worst, but I might have been better off flatting to protect my stack (although the result may have been the same anyway).
As played, calling BB's shove is highly questionable at best…correct? I was fairly certain he was incapable of shoving with anything but the absolute top of his range here, and I tanked forever before calling. He was a straightforward player, and I absolutely knew he had JJ+. I did not want to click that button. Should I have folded to him? I'd have still had a little over 20bb left, still third in chips. I ended up crippled and finished fourth for about $350. First paid about $1300. I was pretty annoyed.
OK, OK, so that kind of analysis probably costs $100 an hour.
I took your advice and mixed some turbo stuff into my shorter-than-usual session last night and was able to ship a 2/180 on Stars. (I unfortunately also lit a lot of money on fire in the late $1 rebuy. Never seemed to get anything going.)
Lost a flip at the final table of a $3 knockout on FTP (no guarantee, about 450 runners) to finish 7th. I was 5th in chips but plenty healthy, so shoving 44 from the hijack might not be correct. Not sure. But (getting back to the topic of this thread), late stages on FTP are so shallow that I guess it's hard to avoid being forced to do a bunch of flipping.
June 25, 2010
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After you raise you have committed yourself to the pot so you have to call there. With under 40bb that is just a cooler and you are present with the perfect opportunity to squezze and underrepresent your hand. I would probably just shove all the chips in pre after the flat, because it makes the pot a significant percentage of your stack. Don't see anything wrong with getting it in here.
jshilling09 said:
After you raise you have committed yourself to the pot so you have to call there. With under 40bb that is just a cooler and you are present with the perfect opportunity to squezze and underrepresent your hand. I would probably just shove all the chips in pre after the flat, because it makes the pot a significant percentage of your stack. Don't see anything wrong with getting it in here.
Yeah, I agree, I'm committed to the pot at that point.
I guess the hand is pretty standard, and the only thing that made it such an ugly spot was the BB waking up.
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