Home
(0 votes) 
Was just going over HH from last nights 1k score and came across this hand.
Villain had got moved to the table about 1 orbit before this hand and he played 6 of his first 6 hands (limping in EP first few and calling LP raises for the rest). At the time I hadn’t seen him go to show down but from his style its clear to see he is a bad player. From reviewing my HH the one had that he went to show down was when he defended J 9 o to a CO 13 bb open, check called a T 3 5 ( 2 hearts board) and called the all in on the Q turn. After this he tightened up a bit till the following action.
In this hand it was the first time he had raised pre flop. We are about 20-30 from the $ fwiw. Would appreciate peoples thoughts on the best line pre flop here…
Do we go for aggression here or approach it cautiously vs one of the few guys who can eliminate us from the tournament?
Poker Stars $5.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold’em Tournament – t1000/t2000 Blinds + t250 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
-zajic-78 (CO): BB = 11.3, t22604
maditheman (BTN): BB = 42.8, t85593
Hero (SB): BB = 38.6, t77136
Booth21 (BB): BB = 28.4, t56814
Akiem (UTG): BB = 37.4, t74845
Ville72 (UTG+1): BB = 15.8, t31603
Kees79 (UTG+2): BB = 21.1, t42168
chickenribri (MP1): BB = 71.5, t143087
VILME (MP2): BB = 10.9, t21870
Pre Flop: (t5250) Hero is SB with J J
3 folds, chickenribri raises to t8000, 3 folds, Hero ??
I play this cautiously OOP and flat his 4x. I just hate a 3b here, especially since he 4x’d. Plus we aren’t 3b to induce against this fish. Doubt villain is ever barreling three streets with worse so proceed with caution and re-evaluate on later streets.
i thought the same jude. did flat in the end just didnt like it. flop was ak x n jus check folded his pot bet lol
i think this might be a case where we want to just fold JJ and move on, i know it seems super nitty but we are going to be in nothing but awkward spots no matter what flop comes unless its Jxx
you have described said villian as really fishy and limpy which makes him sound passive, after limping 6 hands he just decides to 4x it, when fish do this i always feel like i see KK or AA a sht ton
JJ is a decent hand but is going to play really awkward in this spot vs said villian and i think you are playing a guessing game for your tournament life way to often by the time this hand reaches the turn…
most flops will have an overcard to your pair so i guess you will be check folding these flops, and if the flop comes 852 badugi can your really be super pumped to be getting 38bb in with JJ vs a monster fish, even though it is really nitty i think you can fold pre in this instance and save yourself a ton of guess work and awkwardness vs the fish
especially since we have position on him everytime we are cut off and button, i think a fold here is fine and use our chips to own him in position in spots we arnt going to be guessing
sorry if this post makes no sense its late but it sounded nice in my head
haha i get what you are saying shawn. Folding did come across my mind as you said not not really happy unless you see J x x.
What do people about 3b getting it in so close to the money after grinding for 6 hours? lol
i hate getting in almost 40 biebs with JJ here….like you said you jus played for 6 hours and unless you have serious meta game or hes a giant fish youre not gonna be happy getting it in.
i really think its a fold more than anything but i could see the argument for a set mine
i think if you dont sigh fold pre you are puke stacking off 752 flops dominated a ton (due to the 4x pre)
this hand hinges on what we see him show down pre, 4x is standard for some bad fish. if we see him limp AJ 99 77 etc and show down then this is a super easy fold/set mine. Reads are also important because if he barrels all of his unpaired broadway hands im more inclined to setmine, if he will only bet flops for value im more inclined to flat for value/set mine. Without any of the above information i think folding is perfectly fine.
I mean personally I think you guys are giving the donk way too much credit here. He has been at the table for one orbit….and played like a donk and now he 4x raises so its obv AA or KK? I dont think so! I mean its in his range certainly but its a very small part of the range we need to assign him since we know so little about him. You have seen only one of his hands so with that little info and there is no way we can say its always gonna be a big pair.
So with that part out of the way I think the best line here is to 3b……and make it pretty big maybe like 25k. The reason for this is that:
1) From what you have said he like to call and he has a big stack so I think he is calling with quite a few hands you are crushing. From the sounds of it hes not gonna really pay attention to bet sizing so might as well get some extra value in.
2) Our sizing makes it fairly easy to play OOP post flop since we only have a pot size bet left.
I think if you folded this you are either running scared or give way too much credit to people you know not much about and if you flatted you are putting yourself in an awkward situation you could have made much simpler.
ozzieowen said:
I mean personally I think you guys are giving the donk way too much credit here. He has been at the table for one orbit….and played like a donk and now he 4x raises so its obv AA or KK? I dont think so! I mean its in his range certainly but its a very small part of the range we need to assign him since we know so little about him. You have seen only one of his hands so with that little info and there is no way we can say its always gonna be a big pair.
So with that part out of the way I think the best line here is to 3b……and make it pretty big maybe like 25k. The reason for this is that:
1) From what you have said he like to call and he has a big stack so I think he is calling with quite a few hands you are crushing. From the sounds of it hes not gonna really pay attention to bet sizing so might as well get some extra value in.
2) Our sizing makes it fairly easy to play OOP post flop since we only have a pot size bet left.
I think if you folded this you are either running scared or give way too much credit to people you know not much about and if you flatted you are putting yourself in an awkward situation you could have made much simpler.
basically the only thing i agree with is its not always KK or AA.. he said the donk limped a few hands and then 4x raises, this is usually a hand in the upper range of peoples value opens…..with stack sizes this deep why do we want to stack off such a terrible hand as JJ to someone who is obv super fishy and easy to play vs in position. like you said we know nothing about him so why are you wanting for first pump get in heaps with JJ?
secondly he is never calling any hands we are crushing, unless you consider us to be crushing KQ+, and even that is super generous even given his super fishy assumtion. just because he is a fish and we have a pair with pictures doesnt me we should auto want to get this in here. if we evaluate the situation we will realize we are one of the biggest stacks at the table and can take advantage of countless other spots that have much greater Ev to them
actually like setmining less given his bet sizing unless we know he barrels his AQ+ without improvement
shawnivey said:
basically the only thing i agree with is its not always KK or AA.. he said the donk limped a few hands and then 4x raises, this is usually a hand in the upper range of peoples value opens…..with stack sizes this deep why do we want to stack off such a terrible hand as JJ to someone who is obv super fishy and easy to play vs in position. like you said we know nothing about him so why are you wanting for first pump get in heaps with JJ?
secondly he is never calling any hands we are crushing, unless you consider us to be crushing KQ+, and even that is super generous even given his super fishy assumtion. just because he is a fish and we have a pair with pictures doesnt me we should auto want to get this in here. if we evaluate the situation we will realize we are one of the biggest stacks at the table and can take advantage of countless other spots that have much greater Ev to them
Firstly are you saying a donk with this many chips who is known to have been in a lot of pots is never gonna flat a 3b with TT, 99, 88 and how much of his range here is AQ, AK, AJs etc……Remember there are 16 combinations of AK he can hold to only 6 of AA. So for everytime he has AA here he has AK over 2 1/2 times as much. And before you ask yes I do think TT and 99 etc are in his 4x open range here. We've seen one hand of his. The others he played passivly limping in……why are you assuming because he raised and didnt limp that its the top of his range? How do you know those other hands he wasnt limping J8s, 43s, TJo???? You are giving him way too much credit.
Secondly 38BBs is not playing very deep. I'm not absolutly fist pumping getting it in here cos you are gonna be flipping a lot of the time but this is certainly a spot you should be taking.
Most Users Ever Online: 2780
Currently Online:
30 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
bennymacca: 2616
Foucault: 2067
folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133
praetor: 1033
theginger45: 924
P-aire 146: 832
Turbulence: 768
The Riceman: 731
duggs: 591
florianm1: 588
Newest Members:
Tillery999
sdmathis89
ne0x00
adrianvaida2525
Anteeater
Laggro
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 24
Topics: 12705
Posts: 75003
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1063
Members: 12008
Moderators: 2
Admins: 5
Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos
Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1
