Hi Guys, First post in Tournament Strategy.
I am a ABC player trying to expand my game and thought i would try to do something that i would normaly not do in this situation.
situation: 10 players from bubble, i have a very solid image (as usual) and UTG has been getting very active opening a lot of pots and having a lot of swings with his stack.
Normaly i would not call here to set mine but thought i would have a go at floating this guy if the flop seemed ok and also i noticed that he was always cont betting flops and giving up when called or raised.
Q1. Could i have called here just to set mine.
Q2. Is the situation Right in regards to stack sizes and type of player and his position to attempt float.
Q3. Should I have put in a value bet on river, i wanted to but was scared i would get bet off hand.
Poker Stars $30+$3 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t150/t300 Blinds + t40 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Travl (CO): BB = 42.9, t12875
Hero (BTN): BB = 33.9, t10165
huntr3z (SB): BB = 113.6, t34088
bluffer1961 (BB): BB = 17.4, t5217
shakazulu_pt (UTG): BB = 31.7, t9503
ELPOLACO1981 (UTG+1): BB = 21.2, t6349
ovapid (UTG+2): BB = 13.4, t4014
TurgonNoldor (MP1): BB = 52.7, t15809
VfB.Volker (MP2): BB = 20.3, t6098
Pre Flop: (t810) Hero is BTN with 5 5
shakazulu_pt raises to t665, 5 folds, Hero calls t665, 2 folds
Flop: (t2140) 2 T 6 (2 players)
shakazulu_pt bets t900, Hero calls t900
Turn: (t3940) Q (2 players)
shakazulu_pt checks, Hero bets t1800, shakazulu_pt calls t1800
River: (t7540) 3 (2 players)
shakazulu_pt checks, Hero checks
Final Pot: t7540
Hero shows 5 5 (a flush, Queen high)
shakazulu_pt shows Q K (a pair of Queens)
Hero wins t7540
Hey there Mule,
My two cents worth:
Q1. You probably do have impled odds just to set mine but its pretty marginal. What do they say – the stacks need to be 12-15 time the amount you need to call to give you odds to setmine? Something like that. The fact that V is loose, makes it less likely he has a big pair and therefore reduces the implied odds a bit, but on the other hand that increases the likelihood that your 55s may be good post flop. That and the fact you have position make it a reasonable call imho.
Q2. Not the worst board to float. Two overcards, but I'm not that worried about the 6. So, I think my 55s are often good here (although if that is why you're calling its not strictly a float).
Q.3 The check call on the turn suggested to me a pair Qs or 10s trying to get to showdown. I'm not sure there is too much value betting the river when the 4th spade falls, as I doubt these pairs a calling, unless V has a spade kicker which is likely better than yours.
Nice hand. BTW, you'll get better responses if you dont post the result initially.
All the best,
B
I personally like a 3bet pre rather than a flat to set mine. Set mining is ok when your deep but with your stacks it is marginal. Take control of the hand with a 3bet pre and a nice continuation bet takes down the hand. As played, I dont like a value bet on the river because there are plenty of medium spades that check/call and beat you.
i like calling pre here. 3bet is not bad vs agg opener, but dont really want to bloat pot with small pr when we can use our great pos to outplay loose villian. 55 will be the best hand vs agg opener enough times on this flop to make this call profitable as well. possibly lean more toward 3betting if we were out of pos, but n pos we can call and evaluate.
as playd, dont mind call on flop. turn id check behind because villian could of picked up some extra outs with fd, str8 drws or even have connected with top pr as he did. betting creates bigger pot and makes for a bgi river bet that we may not be able to call. chking behind keeps the pot withn reach to call off a reasonable river bet with small flush. true he's agg, but we only have 55 here… just my opinion….. let me know wt u guys think of my reasoning. wanna know how off i am.
bjizz
Thanks for your input guys.
After looking at this hand a few times i realized that i had tunnel vision in my plan to float/call the continuation bet, I did not even consider to make a small raise on the flop and take the hand down there, I am not sure if that would have been the right play, but being a bit more flexable and not so rigid in my plan can't hurt. next time maybe!
One Eyed Mule said:
Thanks for your input guys.
After looking at this hand a few times i realized that i had tunnel vision in my plan to float/call the continuation bet, I did not even consider to make a small raise on the flop and take the hand down there, I am not sure if that would have been the right play, but being a bit more flexable and not so rigid in my plan can't hurt. next time maybe!
i dont think raising is the way too go here. ur turning 55 into a bluff. i would consider 3betting and cbet when checkd to b4 i raise this flop. as mentioned, villian is aggressive, he could shove all draws here(OESD, FD overs such as: AK/AQ) and even his air hands when he's raised. unless we have a super solid read on opponent here, i dont think raisng is optimal vs any player. after making the call pre which is arguable(dont know if thats a word), we should be tryn like crap to get to showdown on not such a bad flop vs agg opponent.
bjizz
I like 3bet pre, unless this villain has shown a propensity to 4bet jam light (which is not very common at these stakes). I think you played this hand pretty well against an aggressive opponent.
If we were a little deeper, I might raise the flop to later rep spades if they hit, particularly this close to the bubble, but that could be sort of FPS-y.
July 3, 2010
I like the 3 bet preflop, too.
55 isn't a very good hand to take to showdown so I'd rather 3 bet my button and try to win with a c-bet than play multiple streets on a 30 bb stack semi-deep in a tournament.
As far as a flop raise to rep a flush … you still need to fire all turns when checked to so that means you're going to be playing a very large pot and probably jamming a lot of river cards.
I'm not a big fan of a 3-bet here. You can't profitably set mine, although if you flat here you do have the power of position and can probably float most flops you miss profitably and take it away on the turn. However, I'd much rather just fold and exploit spots where I have a much more positive expectation than the range I put UTG on.
i think 3betting here we lose a ton more than we win. to add i think its spewy. our line so often will be cbet and give up. once we shut down agg villian smells blood and takes it from us. i stand by my first post and only add that if we're deeper and OOP then i 3bet this type of villian pre, but our stack, pos and vs agg opener warrants atleast a call in my opinion. Wein, it seems folding pre vs this opp is a little too conservative. wt ranges are we flatting here pre. dont u think our positive expectation is being in pos and confident that we will outplay villian.
bjizz
July 3, 2010
Why do people think 3 betting in position with a tight image against the most active player near the bubble is bad?
We'd have to know more about his post-flop tendencies to say we can flat/float/take away IMO.
If he two barrels we're folding 100% so isn't it like you're floating hoping for a check and take away?
And you risk the same amt. of chips being the aggressor in the hand against an active opener who's probably just gonna fold and move on half the time.
I'm thinking 3 bet or fold here based on reads. I don't want to flat against an active player but I would against a passive player.
October 6, 2010
Pettman18 said:
3 bet with the intention of what?
whats the multi street plan vs his calling range?
would you be 3 betting light in this spot?
if ur 3 betting in this spot shouldnt you have a polarized range? instead we have the middle of our preflop value range.
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