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January 20, 2014
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Blinds 100/200 no ante
About 1.5 hours into the $5.50 Contender MTT. I have about 10 hands at this table, just got moved, so no real reads other than the guy to my immediate left is a huge fish (calling bets the whole way down w/ low pocket pairs). I had shoved QTs the orbit before from MP and everyone folded. Now I pick up ATo UTG 13bb with 7 players total including me. I have 6 players behind.
What is your shoving range here? Is this a fold, and if so are you shoving AJ? ATs?
Thanks 
~Steve
December 24, 2013
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I shove because you have a profitable hand to open (i'm almost sure of it) and you think you'll be flatted and can't really play/don't want to play postflop this shallow. it being a $5 tournament definitely makes it more likely you'll be flatted because there's a higher propensity of players who won't know they can't flat that shallow. there are definitely players like that everywhere i've seen, and in great numbers everywhere, but certainly going to see it more often than not and you don't really want them to flat even though we're ahead of their range. it's just annoying because when you get flatted and there are 5ishbb in the middle and you have 11 behind what do you do really? cbet/call? you can't cbet fold on like any type of flop because even a 3flush board will have A of that suit in the shoving range. So I shove. Because these people won't call correctly (in varying degrees), we can shove sort of like…i want to say wider for value, but still all the profitable hands according to nash as well. like if AT isn't in the shoving range according to nash, you will certainly see fish wake up and call with J9o or K8s from the bb or sb. just yesterday i got called on a reshove bvb by JTo. Today I saw a guy call a minraise from the btn with 18bb and then call the bb's reshove for 17bb with 97s. i imagine all pairs are in there, but i wouldn't really want to shove 22-44 because i think you're getting called so much and you have a pretty good chance at getting into a 65/35 situation instead of a 52/48 or whatever. obviously both are profitable, especially when you consider the money already in the middle (blinds), but the bigger edge is the preferred spot. idk, it feels like a lot of high card situations can come up in an orbit.
January 30, 2013
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Other stacks are relevant, no antes I believe ATo is going to be slightly -EV or breakeven. Nash has people calling your shove pretty tight, so could be +EV. I recommmend getting the holdem resources calculator and just playing around with it in spots like this.
December 24, 2013
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other stacks are mostly going to be around 3k-5k at that point right steve? so 15-25bb. as i said though, they call wider in a seemingly random fashion, so it will be profitable overall. like give bb a tight calling range and then add like 18 combos of random hands and youll see how much your equity goes up.
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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i hate spots like these so much if you fold you feel like a nit if you shove you hate watching the action around the table. Its weird becuse i would rip 99 np and 88, 77,AJ but prolly fold A9. I call these spots Fence hands and because i play in a way that errors on the side of aggression i would prolly rip then call up the lobby to re start another.
February 14, 2013
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I think min raise/folding these hands is pretty cool; I'm pretty sure open ripping is bad (slightly) and it looks really nutted to all the good players behind so its a pretty nice way to balance the times you have QQ+ here
January 20, 2014
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I hadn't thought of min raise folding. I guess that's another option. Thanks.
February 14, 2013
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Yeah, no prob man. I know a few years back I didnt put much importance on weather or not there was antes, but now I feel like its a pretty huge deal and something we really need to consider. Thinking about it logically it actually seems pretty simple, assuming we're 9 handed the antes increase the initial pot size like 70ish% so our shoving range really needs to be quite a bit stronger overall
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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With no antes I'm pretty confident this is a fold pre. I think AJo would be a shove but I'm not crazy about it. With no antes you just can't really shove wide in EP, even 7 handed. Probably shoving 55+ AJo+ ATs+ KQo/KQs or something like that.
EDIT: Should add that I don't hate minraise/folding because it looks so strong at a table of decent players, but at a table full of fish you're just going to get into awkward spots doing that when they flat you, and they're not going to notice how strong it looks anyway.
December 24, 2013
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matt, why can't we shove wide for value in these lower buy-ins? big blind will tank/call with JTo people in midposition with call sporatically with 75s. Hands randomly take on value in these guys' heads and they just call with them. I don't necessarily think to count on that as a rule/norm, but wouldn't that imply we can shove wider? If you added like 6 combos per fish at the table of hands that are either in 35/65 spots or even crushed, surely that would make it profitable? I'm on my phone, so i can' run numbers. but if a typical call range is like 77-AA AJ+, KQ for say just big blind, adding then 2 combos of 75s, 4 combos of Q9, that has to effect it enough right? with 6 guys and just that call range, you get through about 50% of that time when 7 handed.
got out of bed and pulled up the calculator. i didn't realize how many combos of hands we have already in there and it would probably take a decent amount of fishy “i feel like playing this exact hand”- combos to actually have a big impact. against that calling range were at like 33% and adding those 6 only made it jump to 37%. Because fold % is so low (that call range is like 8% and then you multiply it by each person, though it certainly changes by position. this was just quickly done), you don't make enough in fold equity to make up the loss from being called.
January 27, 2013
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With Antes, this is a shove. Pre antes it depends on the day. You have to ask yourself.. “Do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk? and then I go to Lobby and fire up another.
January 20, 2014
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Sounds like this is a majority fold … thank you guys for reviewing this. As soon as you start thinking that you are schooling fools, there is a lesson in humility right around the corner 
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