Should I cut the red wire or the blue wire?

What would you say the number one obstacle to maximizing profits is for a competent player in MTT poker?

I have been grinding 12 180s and I do not grasp how to calculate EV shoves.There is another thread here on this subject that helped me half way but I don't understand how to calculate if the player calls.It would really be great if someone could do a video on the subject or you add to your bankroll builders series.As you already know this is probably very important to maximize your pushing ranges and I am a bonehead when it comes to math.

FkCoolers said:

How often do you think you should three bet in lower stakes mtt's where there are so many more call stations? Should you polarize your range to just strong hands?

+1

shangobango said:

What would you say the number one obstacle to maximizing profits is for a competent player in MTT poker?

Make sure you are only playing when you are feeling it and not just because you need to make money, and going along with that making sure that you are not auto piloting and doing your best to think your best on all of your current tables.

jshilling09 said:

I see that you used to play the $12 180 mans back in the day.  What was your next step after those?  What size roll did you have when you stopped playing them?

 I grinded those for living expenses at the time and saved a bit and eventually got backed for MTTs and switched over to those instead.

 parttime said:

I have been grinding 12 180s and I do not grasp how to calculate EV shoves.There is another thread here on this subject that helped me half way but I don't understand how to calculate if the player calls.It would really be great if someone could do a video on the subject or you add to your bankroll builders series.As you already know this is probably very important to maximize your pushing ranges and I am a bonehead when it comes to math.

I am not quite sure what you are asking… are you saying you are unsure that if you are shoving X range, that you don't know what the player is going to call you with, therefore leaving you unsure about what range to shove?  If you think they are calling tighter than normal(they are weak, it's the bubble, etc) then you can shove wider than NASH.  if they are calling wider than they should, for example calling you with a wider range on the bubble because they do not understand ICM, it would be incorrect to shove as wide.

FkCoolers said:

How often do you think you should three bet in lower stakes mtt's where there are so many more call stations? Should you polarize your range to just strong hands?

It really depends on the table.  If you have a table where most people are playing nitty, your optimal strategy is going to be opening a lot of pots and folding to resistance.  If everyone is a calling station, then what is the point of 3betting light?  Remember the reasons you are 3betting light in the first place, because it's profitable because they are either going to fold a lot to the 3bet, or call and check/fold a lot of flops, or because you want to show the table you aren't just 3betting the nuts.  If your table is a station table, then none of these reasons matter and your best strategy is to just play a solid game with little bluffs.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to these guys, on vacation in florida! =)

Ryan

tiltmoarufish said:

Hi panda. I have a question.

I'm having trouble early stage with big pockets such as TT or JJ and even QQ.

Since im a former cash game player that recently switched to tournaments. I'm a bit lost.

 

Say its the 1st level of a 10+1 10k gtd on ftp. No infos on player .

 

I get JJ in the CO. Mp1 makes a std 3x raise.

 

My normal play here ( I know its bad) is 3bet and get in no matter what (starting stack 1.5k) .

 

Obv i often run against qq+.

 

Ok my question is. Let's say we flat with JJ and flop comes 1072r.

Mp1 bets 2/3 of the pot. We call.

Turn comes a brick lets say a 5.

Opponent bets again and we call again.

River is also a brick lets say another 2.

He shoves and we call and he shows kk.

 

I mean is it a cooler or folding over pairs early on in a tournament is pretty standard.

Thank you very much.

In this type of structure unless I had a read on villain that he is either a monkey or very loose(same thing w/e) then I would flatcall preflop.  You said it yourself, the only thing you are doing(unless you have history) is usually making them fold the worse pairs, and getting it in with the better ones.  This is not profitable.

The hand where you flatcall, I would definitely flat flop, and depending on the player I can call turn/eval river or fold turn. Usually in 10$ tournaments I would assume against a RANDOM that calling down would be okay, depending on his opening position of course.  however if you have any reads of how wide he is opening and where he is doing it from or how he plays postflop it changes my actions in this hand hugely.

hope this helps, let me know if you want me to elaborate a bit more.

Ryan

Hi Panda,

Im watching the Saturday Live Part 1 and as 13 minutes strikes in the video you get KK at the UB final table.

The vilain raise UTG at the 7 handed table and you get KK in the cutoff. 

That vilain had double up less than an orbit ago and was raising his second pot since then, and on your side you had not played a hand at the final table yet.

Would you consider flat callling his raise there and trap him on the flop ?

I expect him to perceive your 3Bet pretty strong here and to fold often.

Or is it too risky — with both of you being pretty deep — or you wouldnt want to miss a chance to play for stack preflop ?

dbt said:

great reply panda , i have a ? for you if you have a big hand like 10+ AK AQs theres a middle postion open low blind level  open but you have postion and your like 25 to 50 bbs deep lets say around 1st or second blind level .is it ok to be calling here i mean  i was tought in lower levels to reraise and get as much in the middle pre as i can, also by reraising im not pricing in the sb  bb ect , but if i have postion say AK can i just be playing these hands in postion and reraising or 3 betting out of postion or with these big hands in these 12 buyin 180s do i really wanna be trying to get as much in the middle pre ? certainally as the blinds go up theres no ? thats its going in. however just something ive been puttting some thought into to help control the varaince ect. the reason why i had thought of this was a hand i had posted in the ap 50k freezeout were ronfez made a great point i had jj there was a early postion open so i had postion were i 3 bet  from the button.in my mind i did this to not price the blinds in by flatting but  he flatted the 3 bet flop came like k810 he 1st to act and lead for 500, now im in a tuff spot were as i can just call there in postion, just a thought if you can add your advice it would be great. i  think these are leaks i need work on for sure ,  i think as the blinds go up my reraises are really just shoves were as lower blinds i think is were im leaking in these spot,

Nah, depending on the opener in a 12 180 , say it's 15/30 and he makes it 90 in MP1, you're on the button with AQs, i would just flatcall.  even if the blinds come in you can still play a multiway pot.  i would probably fold AQo to a raise in a 12 180 unless he's super loose and i can just 3bet my stack intending to get it in.  in the 12 180's you're just looking to play your big hands fast against bad players but getting 40bb in with 1010 or AQo against someone who isn't raising much in those can be bad.  I don't like the reasoning of 3betting to not price the blinds in.  I can see making a small 3bet against a minraising station or something to isolate him in position so the blinds dont come along in an MTT, but not in a 12 180.

You can also definitely flatcall QQ/JJ/AK in the lower levels in the 12 180's and if you hit or get a good flop you can definitely stack some worse pairs etc.  You can definitely flat strong hands as well as speculative hands in position in MTTs and crush people that way.  Lemme know if this isn't just rabble babble I just woke up 😀

Antonz87 said:

Why u are HITTHEPANDA? Funny sc, lol -)

Me and my friend were a little out of it one day playing Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne against some guy who picked the Panda hero against us.  We went to attack him and all we did was just attack the panda and die trying to kill it for like 5 minutes while we spammed in chat HIT THE PANDA to the guy over and over again while not being able to stop laughing.   We kept the term around for a while just cause it was hilarious to us and eventually I chose it as my nick.  Didn't even realize there were other screennames with HITTHE like hitthehole etc so it just made it all the more funny to me 🙂

next ? for the panda any chance of seeing u in a wpt anytime in the future, i hear you going for some live events and gl with that ,

dbt said:

next ? for the panda any chance of seeing u in a wpt anytime in the future, i hear you going for some live events and gl with that ,

I won a seat to EPT Villamoura in portugal so I will be heading there at the end of the month.  Going to be playing EPT London and WSOPE mainevent as well (90%)

 TY for the luck 😀

jshilling09 said:

Thanks for the advice, and sorry to be asking so many questions haha but i have a few follow ups.  How did you go about getting staked?  Do you think it was a good idea?  I am sorry for all the questions I just do not know to much about staking/ getting staked.  What kind of results do you need to get staked for mid-high mtts?  jshilling09 on stars and jessejames2112 on tilt btw.

Usually if you have good results over a decent sample size someone will stake you, either on 2p2 marketplace or …..epoker.com or thru a friend.  I was lucky enough to have some friends who knew some people and got in touch with a backer that way. I did have a backer who stopped backing me though because he thought I wasn't good enough, then a few months later I binked 6 figs =P

Also, do you play cash?

FkCoolers said:

What's your MTT schedule look like in an average week?

i.e. which days you play, which you take off, and # of games per day.

Also, do you grind any particular games to try and stabilize your variance?

I play every wednesday/saturday/sunday normally, and try to play most tuesday/monday nights for the 1ks.  On a terrible downswing this year  and have a little less motivation to play, but trying to keep the volume nonetheless.
I reccomend the 12 180's if you are playing low-midstakes, as well as the 45 man turbos and 38$ 180's.  Lately i've been getting into PLO cash a lot more and am going to try to play more volume of that. 

buffyslayer1 said:

what's your view on 3 betting preflop before antes kick in both for value and light?

 

I tend to do it for value as players are so bad they will flat OOP with marginal holdings…

Doing it light before antes kick in it has to work so much more of the time to be +ev that i dont do it really. I know some think its outright bad to do pre antes so intersting to get your thoughts…..

Whoever is giving you advice saying 3betting light pre antes is outright bad is someone who you should stop taking advice from.  I agree with your value 3betting, but against players who are opening light, and capable of raise folding then i like to do it a lot.  Especially if you are not known for doing it, it is hugely profitable and a great way to add chips to your stack early on.

swet1 said:

HITTHEPANDA said:

I'll try to provide the answer

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Why do you yawn so much?

+1

WoHITTHEPANDA said:

swet1 said:

HITTHEPANDA said:

I'll try to provide the answer

---

Why do you yawn so much?
 

---

 
I have had sleeping disorders since I was a kid and haven't really done anything since going into the lab and getting tested.  Nothing really worked at the time so I just deal with not getting much sleep most nights, I stay up very late and can't fall asleep before 4 usually and I get up at anywhere from 9am to 1pm.  I will try to make a better effort to keep yawning out of videos but sometimes it's hard to stop 🙁

wow sorry man I was just messin with ya, really not a prob.

whats you plan in the following situations….

you raise 99 in UTG+1 to 3x early and MP 3 bets to 3x you bet size. Whats your general line, a) 100bb deep b) 60bb deep c) 40bb deep

do you flat and look to set mine or ch/c a street or two on safe boards? how does this vary against tight and loose 3 bettors?

second scenario same as above but you have say 22-77 where basically you are set mining?

The reason I ask is that OOP i very very rarely call OOP a 3 bet in fact the deeper we are the harder the hand becomes to play imo as we have larger reverse implied odds… interested to get your thoughts

Hey HITTHEPANDA,

I am currently try to build a bankroll, but I am not sure how much money I need to start grinding the 12/180s. Can you tell me how much money I need before I can start grinding those? thanks

Born and raised in NC? If so, where?

For me, born in Fayetteville. Got family in Wilimington, LOVE WILMINGTON!

Hey HITTHEPANDA what do you consider a bad streak (hours,days,weeks,games,bankroll lost,)well any and all that you have time to answer?Can you also talk about how you overcome these losing streaks and say well thats poker?

thelastprophet said:

Hey HITTHEPANDA what do you consider a bad streak (hours,days,weeks,games,bankroll lost,)well any and all that you have time to answer?Can you also talk about how you overcome these losing streaks and say well thats poker?

I'd consider my 100k downswing this year a bad streak 😉

Just gotta accept variance, work on your game, and be confident in your own play.

Great thread. Best way to improve mid to late game play?

Awake said:

Hi Panda, 

 

What do you consider to be a optimal strategy against a opponent who 3Bets you lightly at a 6handed table ?

Do you prefer 4betting lighter or flatcalling him ? Why do you prefer one over the other ?

How do you strategy changes with different stack sizes ? 

With what sorts of hands (that are not premiums..) will you fight back at those light 3bets ?

 

Thanks alot for answers!

depends on stacks, this is a really broad question with lots of answers, defend good suited broadways/connectors if ur deep and bluff postflop.  u can 4bet lighter as well.  with shallower stacks you can 4bet shove instead of flatting.

Polaris said:

Great thread. Best way to improve mid to late game play?

study, put volume in, and try to get more comfortable playing more hands and always evaluate yourself honestly.

BBird40 said:

Panda,

 

When you were playing the SnGs building your BR, did you stick to strictly SnGs? or did you mix in MTTs? What was your [poker] schedule like back then when you were building your bankroll? 

i started out with the 4.40 180 mans, and moved to 12 180 mans / 12 45s  and moved up in those as well as played mtts in my session as well.  i would play anything starting from the 3r up to the 50$ mtts and 10r while adding in SNGs when I could handle more.

Thought of another Q. In terms of barrelling. Coming from NL cash game perspective. Say I know good boards to barrel. I know good cards to barrel. How much added fold equity should I assign for firing the third barrel given tourney perspective on tournament life. How does this change from small/mid/high stakes Mtts? 

Did you ever consider quitting poker at any point either due to being bored/ burned out/ broke/ made eough money?

Also what you driving these days?

Thanking you Panda