$11 Turbo SuperStack on Bovada, this is the 9th hand played at the 2nd level. This is the Villain's 3rd hand delt, and only hand played so far = I have no reads.
20/40 no antes; everyone has a stack of about 5000 chips (125bb)
Villain raise – 80
3 callers
SB folds
Pot = 380
Hero AQ in BB – 3bet 277
Villain and other 3 callers call 277
5 players to the flop, Pot = 1405
Flop = 5 A J
Hero bets – 555
Villain raises – 1110
Folds around to me, Pot = 3070
What's your guy's line here? Should I have just called preflop, or was the raise ok? What about my lead on the flop, how's the sizing there?
Thanks for the replys!
~Steve
March 6, 2014
I'll play devil's advocate on this one since I'm used to doing it in my job. I feel link since it's pre-ante the flop could get a little bloated for an out of possition A high hand. Are we playing it aggresive due to it being a turbo? I'm not an expert in this environment or any for that matter, but 125bb deep with unknown players seems like a suitable spot to flat prelfop and fold on the flop to continue sizing up the table. I could be wrong, but if I only brought a new idea to the table than I guess I did my job. Nice discussion.
Church
December 11, 2013
Hey Steve,
I would say we should definitely 3bet pre here 100%. I think your sizing is OK and I tend to size my 3bets similarly, but I think it's a mistake and a larger 3bet to 320-350+ would be better. This allows us to get more folds pre and to be HU with initiative more often. This early in the tournament facing a flop raise I think we should have a very easy fold. Even if we give the raiser a generously wide range we'd rather just fold here and find better spots. best case is that villain is spewy aggro and there are some ATs and maybe ATo in that range, and even then that's a small slice of the range and we are behind most of it. I can see tons of AJ+,JJ,AA, even 55 that villain was priced in to setmine with. Maybe some Ax hearts and combo draws like QhTh,KhTh possible.
Cliffs: 3bet bigger and bet/fold flop
I think you guys are right. When I made the 3bet at the time, it looked like a big 3bet to me. But now that I'm standing back, I can see that the 3bet was much smaller than I originally thought.
October 29, 2013
Hey,
the fact that this is a turbo should not play a big part in your decision making atm. you are 125bb deep, period. I don't like 3betting here, even if you make it bigger it is very unlikely you will get it hu, as you guys are very deep and they can play IP deepstacked vs. a very well defined Range.
On the Flop you get reraised from a guy who still has 3 people behind him to worry about. At best you are looking at a broadway hh combodraw, so I think this is a pretty easy fold and wouldn't feel too exploited here, esp. since you will have sets+ 2pair alot on this flop.
November 17, 2013
jacob/doug,
I'm actually with HowIMetUrRiver on this one. I don't really see the point of a 3B here this deep, especially b/c you are going to fold out hands like A10 & A9 that you can get two streets of value from. As played, prob a fold…maybe float one street but there are definitely better spots than this.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
I don't like the 3bet preflop, I just can't see any scenario here where this hand turns out great for us unless these players are all super terrible. If we 3bet and get 4bet we have to fold, if we 3bet and get multiple callers out of position it sucks, and even if we 3bet and get one caller out of position it's going to take a very specific board runout for us to get more than one or perhaps two streets of value. Pre-ante with so little in the pot there's just not that much to be gained from making pots bigger in an attempt to get thin value.
If you are going to 3bet, you need to go bigger, because just over 3x is small enough that once one player calls, the rest are getting odds to call. I'd go at least 350 here if I was going to 3bet.
Once you get 4 callers, this is really not the best flop in the world. Your flop sizing is fine, but once you get min-raised in a 5-way 3-bet pot, this is just a snapfold on the flop. You haven't said which player made the raise, although that is relevant. Even so, it's unlikely anyone would do this with too many hearts combos or a weaker ace because of the 5-way nature of the pot, so considering that all the players in the pot have hands like AJ, 55 and A5 in their ranges, this raise looks obscenely strong, and there's just so few easy turn cards for us that it's a very tough hand to play out of position. I don't even mind checking flop for this reason – in a 5-way pot, top pair second kicker is hardly the nuts. We might be better off getting value on future streets.
March 8, 2013
I don't see why you feel the need to bet this flop. 5-way OOP, I think the only hand I'm leading for value is JJ. I would check-raise with AA and check-call with AK, AQ. What worse hands call your bet? What better hands fold? I think you'll find the answer to both of these questions is none.
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