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AQ from BB in Multi-Way - Hit flop...then BOOM!!!
wager9
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July 2, 2016 - 9:30 pm
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$565 WPT at Aria

Blinds are 75-150-25

Notes on Relevant Villains:

V1 has about 6500 chips and is 50 yo Latino who is an incredible donkey, in all ways. He is trying very hard to get his $$$ in bad.

V2 has about 16k in chips and is a 60 yo Harley biker gang looking man. I’ve only been at table for about 20 mins and he hasn’t done anything noteworthy really – limps here and there but hasn’t been in too many pots.

I have about 12500 in chips have been somewhat active in the 3 orbits or so I have been at table.

The Hand:
22yo kid (seems like a good player) raises to 450 UTG. V1 calls, V2 calls and and another player calls.

My 1st decision: I am in BB with AQ – raise or call?

I called.

Flop~2600)
A95

I check. UTG checks. V1 bets 1100. V2 calls. Folds to me…POT= ~4800

2nd decision: Do I call here or raise to try and I isolate V1?

I raised to 5100 to try and isolate V1 who has not been folding when he bets like this and he overvalues his hand most of the time.

I get the bad news: V1 folds. V2 tanks a bit and then shoves.

POT= ~21k to call about 7k (these numbers are not exact but its about the right ballpark for the decision).

Do we put him on a set here and say GG or do we assume could be making a error and think I am making a move on V1 (which I am but I am not handless)?

Do you GII or do you get to the fold here?

Foucault

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July 2, 2016 - 11:39 pm
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I think 3-bet pre is best. I know you mentioned it as an option, but you don’t really say why you chose call instead. It’s important to get in the habit of really considering the pluses and minuses of all of your options rather than just defaulting to calling.

On the flop, “to isolate” isn’t a good reason to raise. How will raising affect your equity? What is V2’s range for calling the flop bet?

You really need to consider what you will do BEFORE you raise. All your arguments for raising are about V1 and you basically just ignore V2 until he shoves on you and then you are left scratching your head.

JupiterRocks
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July 3, 2016 - 2:09 am
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Foucault said:

All your arguments for raising are about V1 and you basically just ignore V2 until he shoves on you and then you are left scratching your head.

I was guilty of this for the longest of times. Caused more losses than I care to remember. This also arose in tonight’s game at the Palm Beach Kennel Club, happy I remembered to assess all opponents remaining in the hand, saved me chips and gained some as well. 

MovieFX
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July 4, 2016 - 4:59 pm
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Why did you over-bet the pot? Considering how committed this makes you look (you have an SPR of ~0.5 after betting, I think?), I’d shove with my sets and two-pair as well. Maybe even AK, since most sets and two-pair won’t over-bet such a dry board.

Easy fold.

I’ve also learned recently that there are two kinds of players. One that will over bet when they have a strong hand and one that will actually try to get value out of their strongest hands and avoid shoving the nuts every time. Unfortunately I didn’t get a read on a V early enough and lost half my chips during a live tourney on Saturday when V shoved 3x pot on a dry flop like K63r with AK. I had a bunch of chips so I called with my JJ thinking no one would shove a strong hand like that…I’d have to fold…so I leveled once and called…that was one too many levels though for this guy. For a while I’d call when something didn’t make sense. Now, read-less, I’m letting the fish talk and being a little more trusting. I’d rather be bluffed off a pot than hand my stack over to some wacky play. I’ll get them eventually if I can stay in the tourney. I’ll save my hero calls for players that I have at least a little bit of a read on.

wager9
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July 4, 2016 - 6:00 pm
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Looks like I actually typoed in my original post.

There were 2 hearts on flop, giving my opponent more draws. Would this change your opinion on flop play?

MovieFX
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July 4, 2016 - 7:08 pm
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Upon re-reading my post, I want to make sure you didn’t read it as an attack on your play. My last paragraph had nothing to do with you. I assumed your larger bet size was exploitative rather than based on the strength of your hand. I included that part as a comment on V’s shove.

If the size of your bet was designed to charge a heart draw and you felt it was the largest it could be and still get a call, then I suppose the bet size was really good. That said, the Ah is on the board and you have the Q, so there are probably less flush draws in V hands, and at least 1 less out thanks to your Q, so I might adjust lower.

There is also all of the other hands in V’s range though. I think when you put in nearly half your stack, and with such a low SPR, V2 probably should be shoving or folding. The way I see it, what would be the point in just calling? If Vx is on the flush draw and is willing to call, he’d be losing value by not shoving; he’d be priced in to continue on any turn, and since a heart could slow action, why not just shove? If Vx isn’t on the flush draw, and has a strong hand, he should be shoving because another heart could slow down the action and you look commited, so why slow-play?

I guess what I am saying is:

1. When you pick a bet size that looks so committed, you should already know what you plan to do if you get shoved on. It looks like you might be inducing, rather than protecting. If you had more chips I think I like your sizing more, based on your exploitative read on V1, though it still exposes you to more risk in a multi-way pot and may still not achieve more than a smaller bet.

2. Perhaps a smaller bet size would leave more room for V to call or raise and still give a draw a bad price to continue. Maybe around 3,200, which leaves you ~8k behind and, if called by 1, a pot ~11k, allowing for an easy all-in on the turn if things look good. I think a shove by V carries more meaning as well at this sizing, since calling and raising are now more viable options as well.

 

Please disagree if you think I am putting too much thought in to the sizing, or missing some points worth considering.

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