No reads, only 7 hands. What are we doing on the riv?
Full Tilt Poker Super Stack $14K Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t40/t80 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
dasole (CO): t5430 67.88 BBs
KazZateL (BTN): t3050 38.12 BBs
Paturco (SB): t3814 47.67 BBs
cashmaker81 (BB): t5320 66.50 BBs
seadafritta (UTG): t5583 69.79 BBs
jamoneosocio (UTG+1): t6825 85.31 BBs
bjopap (UTG+2): t4710 58.88 BBs
deepdowndave (MP1): t5125 64.06 BBs
LarioS69 (MP2): t7995 99.94 BBs
Pre Flop: (t120) cashmaker81 is BB with T 3
2 folds, bjopap calls t80, deepdowndave calls t80, 4 folds, cashmaker81 checks
Flop: (t280) T 7 3 (3 players)
cashmaker81 checks, bjopap bets t160, deepdowndave folds, cashmaker81 raises to t560, bjopap calls t400
Turn: (t1400) K (2 players)
cashmaker81 bets t960, bjopap calls t960
River: (t3320) 7 (2 players)
I might fire the river again. It just looks like a draw to me. And if he has the 10 its probably a chop. I cant see much that beats you here. If he had 67 or 78 I cant see him continuing past the turn unless he just happened to have 67 or 78hh. Thinking he missed his draw or it chop-chop time.
I think if your going to fire the river because you think its a chop than theres merit in check/calling where the hearts and straightdraws missed, at least then you give him a chance to bluff at the pot if its not a chop and and if you are chopping theres no value being lost by check calling anyways.
A blocker bet allows him to shove as bluffs which would put you in a hard spot or allows him to shove hands that you chop with because he also thinks he can get you off a chop; also putting you to a tough decision. Also a blocker bet makes him want to bluff less if he is behind. I doubt hes overbet jamming the river with a bluff and if he has a ten that chops with you he's just going to bet it nominally isn't he? He may even check behind with a Ten.
slimb0 said:
I think if your going to fire the river because you think its a chop than theres merit in check/calling where the hearts and straightdraws missed, at least then you give him a chance to bluff at the pot if its not a chop and and if you are chopping theres no value being lost by check calling anyways.
A blocker bet allows him to shove as bluffs which would put you in a hard spot or allows him to shove hands that you chop with because he also thinks he can get you off a chop; also putting you to a tough decision. Also a blocker bet makes him want to bluff less if he is behind. I doubt hes overbet jamming the river with a bluff and if he has a ten that chops with you he's just going to bet it nominally isn't he? He may even check behind with a Ten.
I am with slimb0 here, Check call is the play IMO. I am not sure that he would call the check raise with a 2 hearts on on one heart flop a ton of the time so I am more inclined to put him on one pair hands like 99 88 JJ, 77 66.
I think a step back here may be in order. Do we really think that in the face of a substantial check/raise on the flop this guy is going to play with no made hand? Given stack sizes and the tournament you are in, I would be far more inclined to think that he is holding a T there, or 55-99 and doesn't think that a T is in your range. A lot of players will limp suited connectors at this level which means that 89 is in there, but I just don't think that it is a big enough part of his range to be losing sleep over. I am not surprised that he called the turn bet either as given the pre-flop action I don't expect the K or the Heart to really change the texture of the board. I would suspect more often than not you are looking at a T (JT, QT, 9T that sort of thing) and he just doesn't belive that the BB connected. So many players know that limpers get picked on. I think I bet hard on the river here and am happy to have him call. If he has a 7 here, gg us. I think you get value from so much of his range that I punish him for his limpy antics.
lespaulgman said:
I think a step back here may be in order. Do we really think that in the face of a substantial check/raise on the flop this guy is going to play with no made hand? Given stack sizes and the tournament you are in, I would be far more inclined to think that he is holding a T there, or 55-99 and doesn't think that a T is in your range. A lot of players will limp suited connectors at this level which means that 89 is in there, but I just don't think that it is a big enough part of his range to be losing sleep over. I am not surprised that he called the turn bet either as given the pre-flop action I don't expect the K or the Heart to really change the texture of the board. I would suspect more often than not you are looking at a T (JT, QT, 9T that sort of thing) and he just doesn't belive that the BB connected. So many players know that limpers get picked on. I think I bet hard on the river here and am happy to have him call. If he has a 7 here, gg us. I think you get value from so much of his range that I punish him for his limpy antics.
Hmm, I'm not sure what part of his range we get value from once that 7 falls on the riv except pairs like 44-66 that he gets stubborn with or A3hh which seems unlikely
adog26 said:
lespaulgman said:
I think a step back here may be in order. Do we really think that in the face of a substantial check/raise on the flop this guy is going to play with no made hand? Given stack sizes and the tournament you are in, I would be far more inclined to think that he is holding a T there, or 55-99 and doesn't think that a T is in your range. A lot of players will limp suited connectors at this level which means that 89 is in there, but I just don't think that it is a big enough part of his range to be losing sleep over. I am not surprised that he called the turn bet either as given the pre-flop action I don't expect the K or the Heart to really change the texture of the board. I would suspect more often than not you are looking at a T (JT, QT, 9T that sort of thing) and he just doesn't belive that the BB connected. So many players know that limpers get picked on. I think I bet hard on the river here and am happy to have him call. If he has a 7 here, gg us. I think you get value from so much of his range that I punish him for his limpy antics.
Hmm, I'm not sure what part of his range we get value from once that 7 falls on the riv except pairs like 44-66 that he gets stubborn with or A3hh which seems unlikely
Ya its very small if there is a portion of his range that were value betting against.
July 3, 2010
I also like the check/call. By doing this your asking him to represent the 7 and bet with his air. Winning a lot of value with your mediocre hand which is now pretty much a bluff catcher anyway.
If you bet, I don’t see a hand he has that your getting value from. Especially since you checkraise flop bet turn, bet river.
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