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November 4, 2013
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This hand is similar to the one Nocturnal posted, but I figured it was different enough to warrant it's own thread. I'm curious what people's ideas are here, and if this is a call or fold based on action.
The SB is a HS crusher, several million in online winnings. Villain is another HS Crusher, with over 5 million in online winnings. I should be viewed as total random. I got out of line(sort of) once about 20 hands before this when I pretty much snap called a CO shove for 20BB with A9o. That player had been aggro, and jammed lots to apply pressure so I wasn't really having to give him a hand. He had one, I got lucky, end of that story.
Stats on Villain to this point are 35/33/14.3 over 65 hands. He has been very active. It is of note that we are on the stone bubble at this point. Since this is a rebuy, min cashing is a bit more lucrative here for anyone who hasn't been spamming the rebuy button vs what it is in a normal tournament.
Poker Stars $100+$9 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t800/t1600 Blinds + t160 – 6 players – View hand 2368535
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
ifghassan (CO): BB = 11.6, t18621
€urop€an (BTN): BB = 75.1, t120190
rdcrsn (SB): BB = 19.5, t31162
PKaiser (BB): BB = 19.6, t31309
Hero (UTG): BB = 39.5, t63208
tiptop219 (MP): BB = 51.7, t82677
Pre Flop: (t3360) Hero is UTG with J
A
Hero raises to t3333, 3 folds, rdcrsn calls t2533, PKaiser raises to t31149 all in, Hero ??
What is his range here? Basically, I'm looking at this being an absolute great spot for villain to resteal/squeeze shove. Ultimately, my thoughts come down to : This a great spot for him to shove, he doesn't have a stack size to do anything else, and if I lose(due to being wrong or poker gods hating me) I still have 20 BB to work with.
I also felt that in order for rdcrsn to come along as well, he has to have a hand he would of been much more likely to just shove from SB. I honestly feel his flat was so he could out play me post flop, or with a marginal hand that doesn't want to be all in, but wants to see a flop.
March 26, 2013
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Yes this is quite a different situation to Nocturnal. I think I look at it this way:
1. To the two villains you are a random so I think they would likely assign you a stronger range preflop here assuming you have not been opening a ton from early position.
2. rdcrsn calls out of the small blind which is odd with around 20bbs as it is the ideal shove stack and most players of his calibre I would expect to either shove or fold in this spot with their whole range. I may be off the mark with rdcrsn's personal tendencies but this call is setting off alarm bells to me and looks like a trap to try to get Pkaiser to stack it in and / or trap you postflop. It may be neither but I just cannot see what he flat calls with here oop.
3. Pkaiser presumably knows that rdcrsn could be trapping here as well yet is willing to jam in 20bbs. I very much doubt he has a hand that is worse than yours. I am expecting maybe AJ+, 88+, possibly KQ etc.
Given that read on the situation I would imagine we are drawing very thin if we call this shove and we still have rdcrsn to worry about as well as I think he can be trapping a lot here unless he really feels he can outplay you but even then he still has the issue of the BB calling and not being heads up with a random so to speak.
I think given the information available here that I would fold and move onto a better situation.
November 4, 2013
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We are only 6 handed at this point, so I had been opening pretty consistently from all positions. Part of my new late game strategy is really ramping up aggression and opening my range way up. It's a tough hump to get over, but it seems to be working so far.
The SB call struck me as really odd as well, except I full expected him to flat and try to out play me post. I presume he was planning for a check shove or check call/lead turn line. I had been c/betting pretty much every flop I raised and getting owned after that.. so it's a viable idea for him.
The one thing I didn't consider is that Pkaiser's range has to be a lot tighter due to rdcrsn limping. I know it does effect it, I guess I'm just not really sure how much.
Thanks for that reply, next time I'll have a few more things to consider… I'll leave the results out for now in case anyone else wants to post their thoughts.
November 4, 2013
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Which stats are being used when people give the quick XX/XX/XX on a villain? Is it VPIP/PFR/3bet? Hope you don't mind my bumping to ask.
This does look like a fold to me, with both those guys in there. The pusher could be wide but you are completely safe keeping your 40BB stack and not finding out this time. I dunno though, I think I'm learning from this site that I need to look people up more.
November 4, 2013
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Yes, it's VPIP/PFR/3bet.
TPE Pro
August 6, 2013
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I'm probably folding this, unless there is some interesting dinamics.
Both players involved in the pot are good regulars, rdcrsn is known to be more on tighter side, so his flat looks quite strong, Pkaiser knows that, so I don't think that he is shoving light here, I guess his bottom shoving range here (99-TT+/ AQ)
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