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Cake Poker, $3 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 20 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13568622
This hand occured in the middle stages of the tournament. We were pretty close to the money but not quite at the bubble stage yet. 18 paid, and there may have been like around 30-35 players left.
I had 3 hands with the BTN (the limper) and he was showing a 67/0 so I'm assuming he limped 2 of 3 hands before this one. Thus I put him on a really wide limping range and labeled him as a loose passive limping fish.
I also had only three hands with the SB (the iso raiser) and he had been running a 67/67. I didn't make any judgments on him due to sample size but this was his 3rd raise in 4 hands so I did want to put him to the test a little bit.
MP: 4,761 (23.8 bb)
CO: 1,575 (7.9 bb)
BTN: 4,312 (21.6 bb)
SB: 4,680 (23.4 bb)
Hero (BB): 6,326 (31.6 bb)
UTG: 14,788 (73.9 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J
A
3 folds, BTN calls 200, SB raises to 777,
posted this on 2+2 and got like 4 different responses, so thought I'd make my first post on TPE with this hand.
I didn't want to fold a hand as strong as AJs with only about 20-25 big blinds and 10 M effective. I felt that there ranges here could both be very wide and I was ahead a lot.
I didn't want to flat because I'd invite the button in for a call and I'd be playing a vulnerable ace three ways with position on only one player.
So is this a pretty standard raise against these particular players? If so, would you raise to like 1850 or just shove? If not, what play would you make and why?
July 13, 2012
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Folding not an option and 3betting a stack of 23bbs and foldind to a shove is not a good action plus 23bbs allin pre is a lot for me. So I would probably smouth call his raise. After all, as you said we dont have a lot of hands to make reasonable assuptions at the hand of the SB. We will have position to him which is more important than at the btn limper, whos range is weak.
July 9, 2012
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kasspav said:
I would probably smouth call his raise. … We will have position to him which is more important than at the btn limper, whos range is weak.
+1
October 6, 2010
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i really hate flatting here. against a perceived fish, i think we can shove for value as villain isnt folding any sort of ace, or KQ/KJ.
against an agressive opponent i might click it back for value against his 4bet shoving range.
flatting is the worst option here imo, i just dont think we are deep enough
June 2, 2012
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With only 3 hands played with the villains this is def a tough spot. Against a spew monkey or really aggressive opponent I like to click it back and 4b to 1777 and then snap when he 5b jams because he'll be doing this with a wide range. 3b jamming is pretty horrible IMO because you are never getting called with worse and you aren't giving the SB a chance to hang himself. Flatting is bad because we aren't really deep enough to play a pot with our opponent as he is only 20 BB's deep. Therefore I like a 4b in this spot.
i did end up 3betting to like 1800ish. the btn folded and the sb 4bet jammed. i was getting 2.5:1 so obviously i called even though i knew i was crushed or flipping at best. he turned over AQs but i still think i made the right play because his raising range is wide so i am sure i have a lot of fold equity and since its post-ante, there is a lot of value in the pot. and in the times he does 4bet shove, AJs is still a strong hand. i have 2 spades, flipping vs strong hands like 88-TT and maybe even ahead sometimes as i think he'd have a tough time laying down KQs or ATs.
thanks for the feedback!
July 20, 2012
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Agree with Benny here, given that you are 23bbs effective I would shove/fold here though I’m fine with a 3bet/call too.
One extra note is that sizing tells are the biggest online tell there is, his near 4x raise is likely a tell here that he is strong. Given that it's button v sb v bb I'm still jamming there though.
July 17, 2012
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Hmmm, tricky. Seems to me you have zero FE against the squeeze raise. He is gonna call you about 99%. But your hand being Ace suited has the ability to smash the flop and calling leaves you with just over 20bb, still plenty of Open Shove/reshove FE.
That being said, we don't know when the blinds are going up. I say, if it is early in the level, it makes more sense to call, then insta-fold post flop if you don't smash it for sure. Villian has first action, and I bet he shoves post flop no matter what it is. If I flop a flush draw or open ender, I'm calling his all in.
If it's late and the levels are going to go up, I'd think hard about a shove here, but in the end, given the info, a fold is probably best.
Though, I am looking at the stacks behind you. The guy in the BB, how is he playing? That might affect my choice here. If he is calling wide and picking people off, this might be your spot, but if he is tight, you have good FE against the next two stacks, and your button is coming up.
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TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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id prolly rip in this spot but would be a bit reluctant in doing so. i hate flatting because it gives button options and why is he limping his button with that stack so id be weiry of a big hand, the raise from the sb is pretty standard imo and fairly wide so that being said if the button had folded and the sb raised what would you do well id prolly 3 bet call so im not worrying about a limped button at this juncture and think you can rip and pick the pot up. 6 handed as well so that ups the old agro level to
June 5, 2012
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IMO, in a $3 tourney, that SB raise is a premium hand almost always, like 88+ AQ+ and possibly tighter, unless there is an established dynamic.
In game I would probably 3B/call, but I would bet that if we looked through HHs, we are almost never seeing worse than AJ in this spot. So I am actually thinking it might be correct to play pretty cautiously
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