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Agree or Disagree ??????
EllDan
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February 28, 2014 - 9:19 am
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Made a deep run in the Merge 3K (I think).  We are 14 handed. 

I have 27 BB and I'm 3/14.  I have been active but not agrro.  Picking my spots and stealing some blinds.  Have not 3-bet in a while.  

The guys at the table with chips are pretty aggro.

Aggro guy min raises from low jack.  He has been very aggressive from that position.  He and the chip leader have been battling.  He has stats of 24/15 with a PFR of 29 from that position.

I am on the button with AQ suited.  I Call.  ( I expect the SB to 3-bet a good percentage of the time and then I get it all in pre)

SB is chip leader and has agrro stats including a 3-bet of 13% over 276 hands.  He 3-bets.  Initial rasier folds and I pile.

 

My Question…. Does anyone disagree with this Line?  I think I loose value when I 3-bet and all fold.

pckrrr
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February 28, 2014 - 11:07 am
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Whats the stack of BB? Think I like 3b/c more when he has over 20-25bb and is aggro/defending alot. You obv lose value when you have to play 3handed a high % of the time

jacobsharktank
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February 28, 2014 - 11:23 am
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if the cl is going to take these spots a ton, then yah i like it. however, 3betting the btn is also obvious. so when you 3bet, the chip leader can pile or the hj can pile because you look weak taking an obvious 3bet spot. i prefer to take the 3bet spot though if this is anything above a $15 buyin because in the lowest buy-ins, you're gonna get flatted a million times more by the cl when you flat.

MrPunty
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February 28, 2014 - 1:04 pm
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Obviously it's a nice result is if the SB squeeze/folds, but I wouldn't expect him to squeeze/call hands you dominate. Also, as the other folks point out, since your BTN raise of a late position open with your stack size is a tempting target for a cold 4 ball with a somewhat wide range (including hands you dominate), I'd prefer to 3b/gii.

WizardZur
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February 28, 2014 - 1:08 pm
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I like calling to induce a squeeze more with a hand like AA, KK, or AK than AQ.   With AQ you actually don’t want your opponent to squeeze necessarily.  If you flat the initial raise then the blinds have the odds to call with a wide range, which I would do.  So often you aren’t inducing a squeeze, you are letting in another player.  Also, enough though the blind and the SB have a dynamic, they are unlikely to continue their dynamic if someone else (you) is in the pot.  Finally, I agree that 3betting looks STD so you may induce a punt.  I don’t like flatting with AQs, I think its FPS. 

jacobsharktank
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February 28, 2014 - 2:51 pm
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jeff, youre missing a little bit of a point about wanting them to sqz. a lot of times, aggro players will widen their value ranges tremendously after a raise and a call. honestly it wouldnt surprise me AT ALL to see the chipleader in the blinds shove all in (not 3bet, given the chips in the middle already) with a ton of hands you're either doing well against or crushing. his value range is probably too wide, as it's a leak a lot of aggro players have. I said in the 10k thread i have that i lost track of how many times i'd get premies and just flat raises and someone would jam. when they're opening their value range too wide, you can open up your range as well, so long as it's thinner then theirs and youre comofrotable with the increased variance. i would rather have AK because AQ is one of the shoving hands, but youll see dudes shove 77-JJ AJ/AQ here plenty of times. while i have already stated i think taking an obvious 3bet spot here is way preferred by me because it looks fos and the original opener is going to 4b you all in a ton if he's aggro. all of this is still contingent on the buyin, because you do'nt get a ton of 3betting, let alone 4betting, in anything under a 10 dollar buyin. the higher you go, the better it would be to mess around with though because people like to get more aggro (it makes sense) and you can exploit it by call/calling all in AQs for value.

WizardZur
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February 28, 2014 - 3:32 pm
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I get your point that villians will squeeze with hands that AQ dominates.  However, I also think that they shove for value with premiums that dominate AQ.  So if you flat to induce a squeeze, how do you know whether you are against a premium or not?  It seems like a fairly polarized range.  I agree with your other points though.   Depends on the villians and buyin. 

jacobsharktank
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February 28, 2014 - 3:56 pm
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well you don't actually know, but youre ahead of their range. they doin't shove a polarized range. they shove a wide value range…one that you're ahead of. like 77-AA AJ-AK KQ. AQs is ahead of that ya? i dont have a calculator

WizardZur
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February 28, 2014 - 4:15 pm
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jacobsharktank said:

well you don’t actually know, but youre ahead of their range. they doin’t shove a polarized range. they shove a wide value range…one that you’re ahead of. like 77-AA AJ-AK KQ. AQs is ahead of that ya? i dont have a calculator

For me, my range would be polarized as I would squeeze as a pure bluff or raise with a premium for value, but wouldn't turn say J10, AJ, or KQ into a bluff by squeezing where I know I'm only getting called by better.  However, I don’'t really like squeezing in obvious spots so that could just be me.  Generally, people know what you're doing when you squeeze, and don't let you get a way with it.  It risks a lot of chips and doesn’t work very often for me.  So if we flat, I believe Villian will just complete, and we see the flop 3 handed.  I'’d rather 3 bet. 

jacobsharktank
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February 28, 2014 - 8:55 pm
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yea, this would be a dynamic and read dependent thing. if i tought villain was aggro but not necessarily that great, i'd be more proponent of flatting for his squeeze shove with the range i mentioned. the bad aggro guys are merged not polarized there.

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