View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
AA multiway with deepish eff stacks
duggs
nz
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 591
Member Since:
May 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
February 7, 2013 - 1:43 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
mid stages of big 16, no real reads on either players, not super loose not super agg, think pre and flop are pretty std,
 what should my sizing and line be on turn?
 
PokerStars - $15+$1.50|200/400 Ante 50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: 3,362.00
BB: 14,865.00
Hero (UTG): 21,027.00
UTG+1: 3,510.00
MP: 10,038.00
MP+1: 3,354.00
CO: 7,110.00
BTN: 19,736.00

SB posts ante 50.00, BB posts ante 50.00, Hero posts ante 50.00, 
UTG+1 posts ante 50.00, MP posts ante 50.00, MP+1 posts ante 50.00,
 CO posts ante 50.00, BTN posts ante 50.00, SB posts SB 200.00, BB posts BB 400.00

Pre Flop: (1000.00) Hero has As Ac

Hero raises to 800.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls 800.00, fold, BB calls 400.00

Flop: (3000.00, 3 players) Jd 5s 7c
BB checks, Hero bets 1,555.00, BTN calls 1,555.00, BB calls 1,555.00

Turn: (7665.00, 3 players) 8s
BB checks, Hero bets 5,111.00, BTN calls 5,111.00, BB raises to 12,460.00 and is all-in, Hero ?????
Nqon
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 198
Member Since:
November 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
February 7, 2013 - 7:11 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

When you bet that size you are committed to call BB shove i think. I think a bet of 3,8 does the same job and lets us get away from our hand when its obvious that we're beat. I think your pretty good vs BTNs range, and i think you are kinda behind BB range (not his entire range ofcourse, but as a whole), but I think due to the huge pot this is a profitable reshove as played. Your turn sizing really doesnt let you get away from it. But again, this is vs unknowns, vs some villians this might be an easy fold.

Check out my "going pro" poker journal, updated weekly with wins, losses and my progress as a player:

Click here

duggs
nz
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 591
Member Since:
May 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
February 7, 2013 - 7:21 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

so would you b/f smaller on turn?

Nqon
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 198
Member Since:
November 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
February 7, 2013 - 8:10 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Depends on if i think he is a huge donk or not.

I think if i bet 3,8, get a flat and he shove I would be more inclined to believe he is protecting a better made hand than shoving worse/combodraw/just going with his Jx.

I think a set is likely to play this way and I do think he calls with 9Ts + backdoor and 64s. So yeah, if i bet 3,8 ish and get a call and a shove i think ill get away from it. I’m not loving my hand vs his range here.

Check out my "going pro" poker journal, updated weekly with wins, losses and my progress as a player:

Click here

Zhengix_Khaan
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 59
Member Since:
January 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
February 7, 2013 - 9:10 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

agree with Noq

 

Flat calling the UTG peflop aggressor spells SUPER STRONG. Definately set mining and WHAM, woke up on the turn.

 

When things like this occur i just look at AA and see 33 or 44….. thats a snap fold right?

Remember you only hit a set what 1 in 10.5 .. its i think a 9.5% chance to hit…..

rumsey182
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 52
Member Since:
January 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
February 7, 2013 - 11:08 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

bet bigger on the flop its  mutliway there ranges are likely inelastic so if they are calling they will call regardless. On the turn, given the effective stacks im not bet folding but we need to think about peoples ranges some

 

both this hand and the other you posted illustrate why we need to be aware of the PSR when we do things so we try and avoid shitty spots 

Nqon
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 198
Member Since:
November 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
February 7, 2013 - 11:43 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

i see no godly reason to bet bigger on this flop. Are you saying that you are betting bigger with AK? Or that you are betting this size with ak and bigger with AA? Or betting entire range bigger on this flop? If anything i don't mind a smaller flop bet.

Check out my "going pro" poker journal, updated weekly with wins, losses and my progress as a player:

Click here

rumsey182
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 52
Member Since:
January 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
February 7, 2013 - 2:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

i see no godly reason to bet bigger on this flop. Are you saying that you are betting bigger with AK? Or that you are betting this size with ak and bigger with AA? Or betting entire range bigger on this flop? If anything i don’t mind a smaller flop bet.

Well what is there range for calling or bet here? Likely Jx type hands so do they care much what sizing we bet?,… Nope. Any draws are weak anyways and it is unlikely they will peel with this stack regardless. I see no need to balance my cbet sizing against weak players so to counter your argument why wouldn’t we bet flop bigger?

Nqon
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 198
Member Since:
November 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
February 7, 2013 - 3:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

there hasnt been any talk about this being a weak player?

Check out my "going pro" poker journal, updated weekly with wins, losses and my progress as a player:

Click here

rumsey182
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 52
Member Since:
January 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
February 7, 2013 - 4:23 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Nqon said:

there hasnt been any talk about this being a weak player?

we can't assume this in a $15 freezeout 😉 until someone proves otherwise,….

duggs
nz
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 591
Member Since:
May 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
February 7, 2013 - 10:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

rumsey182 said:

bet bigger on the flop its  mutliway there ranges are likely inelastic so if they are calling they will call regardless. On the turn, given the effective stacks im not bet folding but we need to think about peoples ranges some

 

both this hand and the other you posted illustrate why we need to be aware of the PSR when we do things so we try and avoid shitty spots 

there is no way that calling ranges are inelastic on this texture multiway.

if you arent bet/folding and want to avoid a shitty spot what are you doing?

what are there ranges

rumsey182
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 52
Member Since:
January 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
February 8, 2013 - 1:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

some duggs said: 

rumsey182 said:

bet bigger on the flop its  mutliway there ranges are likely inelastic so if they are calling they will call regardless. On the turn, given the effective stacks im not bet folding but we need to think about peoples ranges some

 

both this hand and the other you posted illustrate why we need to be aware of the PSR when we do things so we try and avoid shitty spots 

there is no way that calling ranges are inelastic on this texture multiway.

if you arent bet/folding and want to avoid a shitty spot what are you doing?

what are there ranges

wait so you think people on a J57r board care if you are betting 2/3 the pot instead of half pot? they will magically look at J10off and say wow i need to fold this is a sizing tell?,… maybe some but people are generally so bad we can easily get away with this. 

 

JX, some 7X hands, random high cards, random ST8 draws

duggs
nz
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 591
Member Since:
May 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
February 8, 2013 - 1:05 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

if it were truely inelastic we could just shove the flop, i think people call far more if i bet 1/4 pot compared to 3/4 pot yes

rumsey182
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 52
Member Since:
January 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
February 8, 2013 - 9:56 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

duggs said:

if it were truely inelastic we could just shove the flop, i think people call far more if i bet 1/4 pot compared to 3/4 pot yes

yes if you want to make an extreme case, perfect inelasticity would be this. But if we have the top of our range, and villain doesn't care as long as the bet isn't unreasonably big, why not bet bigger with the higher parts of our range to make more when they call, aka higher EV,……

 

your really missing the point, they may call more if we bet 1/4 pot but we let them realize their equity so much cheaper 

OkieNGa
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 134
Member Since:
June 7, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
February 8, 2013 - 10:29 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Here is the issue with mini raising, and exactly why I never ever ever ever ever do it.  You will get the BB callin with almost anything to see a flop, and this brd is all over his range.  He could have a set, though unlikely, I would put him on 2 pair or a str8, MAYBE top pair, but not top top, we would have heard from him pre.  If you mini raise and get called from the BB and do not improve, I would say it is better to excercise some pot control.

 

I would make it 2.2xish pre. 925-995 somewhere in there.  I don't hate the flop bet, but that would be the top of the mark I would say, somewhere between 1200-1550 is fine IMO.  Turn bet……..I think it should be smaller, much smaller, like 3k-4k…or if you know you are never folding to either shove, JAM.

rumsey182
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 52
Member Since:
January 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
February 9, 2013 - 9:27 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

OkieNGa said:

Here is the issue with mini raising, and exactly why I never ever ever ever ever do it.  You will get the BB callin with almost anything to see a flop, and this brd is all over his range.  He could have a set, though unlikely, I would put him on 2 pair or a str8, MAYBE top pair, but not top top, we would have heard from him pre.  If you mini raise and get called from the BB and do not improve, I would say it is better to excercise some pot control.

 

I would make it 2.2xish pre. 925-995 somewhere in there.  I don't hate the flop bet, but that would be the top of the mark I would say, somewhere between 1200-1550 is fine IMO.  Turn bet……..I think it should be smaller, much smaller, like 3k-4k…or if you know you are never folding to either shove, JAM.

getting people to peel OOP when we have a much stronger range is absolutely fine

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
44 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Philbro

acekingsuited

Lber16

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12005

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1