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AA in tough spot
THWG
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April 14, 2015 - 9:31 am
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Was in Bovada black diamond tourny 165 entry with 250 k guarantee. For me this was a shot taking tourny normally only play 10-20 tournys, but had built up my bankroll so decided to take a shot. top 180 get pain were at 190 left. Blinds are 1k/2k with 200 ante. I have 55 k villin has 62 k to start hand.

Folds to me in small blind have 2 black A's, villain is new in BB.

I min raise as I do my whole range after antes from all positions. He flats. Flop comes J 9 8 rainbow. I lead for 5 k villain raises to 10 k. I think he is going to do this with his entire defendeing range as my steal range is so wide from SB.

Turn brings 2heart bringing 2nd heart on board. I check and now he bets 16.5 k. I think may have a lot of flush draws or cont to resteal at this point with overbet. I call. River is a 9spade so all flush draws miss. I check and he moves me all in. I would really like to cash. Have to call approx 23k to win 80k I have severly underreped my hand. He could have JT, heart draw, TT+ that he has slow played. possibly 9s, sets, and QT or T7 for a flopped straight. I find myself in these tough spots with overs often. Whats your play here?

BionicApe
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April 14, 2015 - 9:54 am
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I 3-bet/get it in on the flop. That board is just too threatening. There’s 25K in the pot on the flop after the villain’s reraise and I don’t mind all that much if I push a weaker pair out. Furthermore, I think shoving the flop looks a lot more like a draw than an overpair and feel like it will induce some weak calls.

The way you played it you can’t fold though. You essentially turned your hand into a bluff catcher, to not call here seems like a big mistake.

StarFox
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April 14, 2015 - 4:30 pm
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I also think the flop could have been a good spot to 3bet. As played I’m not so sure you can’t fold to that river bet though. It’s not ideal to fold after committing to this line and I’m not great at poker math but with villains range and line I think we are hoping for Jx or air when we call. Thoughts on check shoving the large turn bet? And if the reason for calling the river is being committed after calling the turn, would it be better to open shove the river?

joelshitshow
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April 14, 2015 - 4:43 pm
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I agree with everything here.

 

I really admire the ranging done in the original post. You've done all the homework. Now you just have to put it together. The responses to this thread have helped with that.

 

Only a sophisticated player would see through a check-shove on the turn (and honestly you may be good here anyway). That's the best play, one that is set up with your bet/call on the flop. Three-betting the flop is next best.

 

Now, if the villain is sophisticated (and I know, you said he's new so we don't know), the open shove is better because it looks like a busted flush draw, and you may get called by any pair+draw combos that missed.

 

Some might say sticking around for a min cash vs. building a stack for a deep run (meaning you fold here) is a bad decision, but it's hard for me at least to look past a score in a higher-buy-in tournament.

SIGABA
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April 15, 2015 - 1:01 am
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Yeah, I've found myself in similar spots when I take a shot at a bigger tournament.  But I've learned from that.  If I am ever thinking about anything other than abusing the bubble when we are close to the money, I am probably playing in a tournament that is too big for my bankroll.

As for the hand, you mentioned that you min raise from every position with your whole range.  I guess that's ok, but even the sb?  I usually make it 2.75 from the sb, just because you know that they are going to have position on you for the rest of the hand; that's why I charge them more … just a thought.

Here I think I would have 3bet shoved the flop.  You bet 5k, he min raises to 10k, then here I would just rip.  You only started the hand with less than 30bb.  It is blind on blind, he may think that you are trying to scare him close to the $$$ bubble, and I could see him calling with T9, T8 or JT here.  If he out flopped you, then so be it.  You have 27bb blind on blind and you have AA.  That's just a cooler.

Thanks for the post.  cool

Foucault

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April 15, 2015 - 11:33 am
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I agree with a lot of what’s been said here. If you find yourself thinking “wow, a cash here would be so good for my bankroll”, then you probably shouldn’t be in the tournament in the first place. If you’re going to take a shot, it has to be in something where you are comfortable with the stakes and able to make the most +EV plays.

I also agree that you should generally be raising more than the minimum from the SB. No matter how bad Villain’s hand might be, he’s never going to make a mistake by calling a min-raise pre-flop. The only people I’d min-raise against are huge nits who won’t adjust their continuing range to my raise size.

“I think he is going to do this with his entire defendeing range as my steal range is so wide from SB.”

Just because you have a wide range doesn’t mean he gets to raise you with anything. That’s not to say he isn’t, maybe that is how he was playing, but if your only reason for thinking that is that your own range is wide, then it doesn’t logically follow from that that he will raise any two on the flop. FWIW, I also don’t think you should be c-betting this spot with 100% of your range, and I think a somewhat larger flop bet is in order when you do c-bet.

Once raised, it’s a pretty easy shove. It seems like you’re calling in an attempt to cut your losses or preserve the last of your chips, but as this hand demonstrates, if you’re beat, you aren’t going to be able to prevent him from putting in the rest of the money. Calling is not keeping the pot small when you’re behind, it’s just giving him free cards and a shot at a cheaper showdown with hands you’re currently ahead of.

THWG
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April 18, 2015 - 10:01 am
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I agree in retrospect should have shoved the flop. while cashing would have been nice really don't feel it affected my play on this.

On the river I'm gettin such good odds and he has so many hands in his range that I beat that he is betting for value or as a bluff with a missed straight or flush draw.

I call he turns over QT off for the flopped straight and out in 190th place.

Thanks for the input everyone

StarFox
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April 19, 2015 - 1:10 pm
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I ran into a similar spot with AA in the SB in a BvB situation on Bovada.  
Difference is that we are and nowhere near money bubble.  
 
Bovada Hand #3178879270: 
HOLDEM Tournament #9993275 
No Limit- Level 6 (75/150)
 
Small Blind [ME] (9,825 in chips)
Big Blind (25,326 in chips)
 
*** PRE-FLOP ***
Small Blind [ME] : Raises 325 to 400
Big Blind : Call 250
 
*** FLOP *** 7
diamond
 T
club
 9
club
Small Blind [ME] : Bets 435 
Big Blind : Raises 1121 to 1121
Small Blind [ME] : Raises 2565 to 3000
Big Blind : Raises 8679 to 9800
Small Blind [ME] : ???
 
A few questions:
1) What sizing do you prefer for pre-ante BvB raise?
2) What are your thoughts on 3-bet decision/sizing?
3) What are your thoughts facing a 4-bet on this flop?
Foucault

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April 19, 2015 - 4:49 pm
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Well you certainly shouldn’t 3-bet if you don’t plan on calling a shove, basically just turning your hand into a bluff.

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