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I know. but how should i think about this hand? What's the pro perspective on it? no reads, new at the table.
I get myself in this situation a lot and it's plain stupid to put 50% of your stack in the pot and fold.
Poker Stars $10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t150/t300 Blinds + t25 – 8 players
Hand Conversion courtesy of Tournament Poker Edge
Stapone (CO): BB = 104.3, t31294
sickbay0 (BTN): BB = 33.8, t10140
totolotto900 (SB): BB = 40.4, t12110
Gamblor Jr 6 (BB): BB = 30.9, t9262
sarkees (UTG): BB = 90.4, t27133
DonPKRleone (UTG+1): BB = 34.5, t10339
martonfella (MP1): BB = 39.5, t11864
skipperjef (MP2): BB = 18.9, t5671
Pre Flop: (t650) sickbay0 is BTN with J
J
sarkees raises to t600, 4 folds, sickbay0 raises to t1750, 2 folds, sarkees calls t1150
Flop: (t4150) T
A 7 (2 players)
sarkees checks, sickbay0 bets t2750, sarkees raises to t5500, sickbay0 folds
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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Just shove PF to avoid this. JJ will play awful post if called, as you see here, and you're not deep enough for anything but getting the stacks in.
As played I dunno I guess you're 100% crushed and might as well fold.
I don't think it's profitable to shove 30bb into a min utg raiser. we could do the math here but i;ll prolly fold him a lot but when he calls i'm probably crushed JJ+ AQs+ i don't see TT calling there and do i really want a race for 60bb? Calling is another option but i have no clue where i'm at but i' could peel for a good price on flop and bet the turn if he checks back. and obviously id get it in on low cards flop and maybe getting called by TT-99. I don't really know though..
other opinons?
June 11, 2010
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I think you either three-bet shove this or just fold it. JJ is a decent hand but those friggen UTG min raises are so damn creepy. You are looking down the barrel of either being way ahead or you are just crushed. Only way you are going to really deal with it is jam and see what he does. If you get called you are probably looking bleak, but everything has a shot. I don't think you want to play a pot with him as 30bb isn't really deep enough to get you anywhere but a shove anyway (3bb PF, 5bb C-bet, 8bb Turn perhaps and shove remainer on river). Might as well do it at the start if you are going to get there anyway.
July 3, 2010
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Can't we make a case for flatting here?
If you 3 bet and he shoves or 4 bets you turned JJ into a bluff which never makes sense.
I think being brand new we need to respect a UTG raise and not bloat the pot or make our hand a bluff.
Play JJ for set value or look for a low board and play post-flop accordingly. It's not the worst thing in the world to flat and fold if a couple overcards come out.
And if you hit a set you're never being put on JJ.
Definitely do not shove. That's massive spewage and only AK and higher pairs are calling. You'd be risking your stack to win 4 big blinds.
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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Yeah you're right I do think you can make a case for calling.
June 25, 2010
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I don't mind getting JJ in pre for 30bb, he folds most of the time, and can see him spewing off with 88-TT which he is definitely min raising utg. I really don't like flatting a 30bb stack, especially with antes. I think any hand you play with this stack, you should be playing for your whole stack. Call/folding flop just eats away at your stack, and you lose 3bet shove equity if you get in the habit of doing that.
June 11, 2010
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Agreed. I think that call/fold for set value would be okay if you were deeper than 30bb, but I don' think it is a good move here. What happens if the flop comes with all unders. We decide to c-bet and take a stab, get called and shut it down. We end up giving up 4-6bb with nothing to show and damaged FE for following play. I think given the stack size you gotta play this one in a pretty binary fashion, imo.
flat pre if you think he doesnt continue with worse, apparently he does though – i would not make it more than 1500 pre. shoving is really bad. i would check back this flop since i'll be 3betting pre and checking back good/weak aces on this flop and expecting to get to showdown plenty.
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