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How are we playing this? obv villains range is super strong given pos and stack size so I'm guessing raising to get it in is wrong, but calling seems too passive as we aren't getting the right odds to set mine etc but passing seems too weak – basically I didnt have a scooby on the right play!
Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t250/t500 Blinds + t50 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
davidv1213 (MP1): BB = 41.4, t20679
Renster12 (MP2): BB = 24.4, t12185
Aku1206 (CO): BB = 50.4, t25200
Hero (BTN): BB = 31.5, t15748
J0hnny_Dr@m@ (SB): BB = 26.0, t13005
playboy99999 (BB): BB = 30.9, t15440
kokynho (UTG): BB = 18.7, t9364
Bakp1337 (UTG+1): BB = 19.7, t9850
jcamby33 (UTG+2): BB = 33.0, t16480
Pre Flop: (t1200) Hero is BTN with 9
9
kokynho raises to t1050, 5 folds, Hero ?????????
Any reads / stats for villain?
I probably 3b/c here .. and fold 88
Villian dependent here. I am 3betting loose aggro villains here and would prob flat vs a tight/solid reg.
hawkeyeK9 said:
Villian dependent here. I am 3betting loose aggro villains here and would prob flat vs a tight/solid reg.
is it ok to be flatting here with vill only having 18bb?
title says villian is tight so im wondering if its good to be flatting a UTG raise from 18bb when the guy is tight.
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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hmm could be the old maybe this min raise will look big type of steal or maybe its the goods very tough spot and read dependant. But one thing i did want to mention that 99 is not a hand you will flat with just for set mine purposes most of the time you will have the best hand but be reluctant to 3 bet this hand pre as the inherant risk of being 4 bet off the hand comes into play.
If villian is opening a lot then I am 3betting the best hand here for value. If the villian is tight/solid, his range is pretty strong here and I will call here to play position and get more info post flop.
hawkeyeK9 said:
If villian is opening a lot then I am 3betting the best hand here for value. If the villian is tight/solid, his range is pretty strong here and I will call here to play position and get more info post flop.
for sure and i agree, the only question i have is is it worth it to play a pot with him since he IS tight and only has 18bb?
Squibsorz said:
hawkeyeK9 said:
If villian is opening a lot then I am 3betting the best hand here for value. If the villian is tight/solid, his range is pretty strong here and I will call here to play position and get more info post flop.
for sure and i agree, the only question i have is is it worth it to play a pot with him since he IS tight and only has 18bb?
I would say yes. If you are a good player post flop, there are a lot of ways to increase your stack here. Villian could also be somewhat timid being that short.
October 6, 2010
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flatting doesn't necessarily mean just set mining. you can flat to keep worse hands in that would fold to our 3bet. we can also put a lot of pressure on the original raiser by just stuffing our chips in his face after he cbets
bennymacca said:
flatting doesn't necessarily mean just set mining. you can flat to keep worse hands in that would fold to our 3bet. we can also put a lot of pressure on the original raiser by just stuffing our chips in his face after he cbets
Cheers for the replies lads, I thought through it and decided to pretty much do what benny said and jam it in his eye on any non A K board, unfortunately the board came 5 7 J and he had KK.
Not too fussed on the result but is this a play we think is +EV
Are we ever just folding the flop? or is call and re-evaluate a good option?
Again, that is why we asked for any reads but we did not get a response on that. I think flat or 3bet pre is fine here but I also think you should have some idea what the plan is post depending on villian. Villian dependent you can 3bet pre and still flat one cbet on J high flop to re-eval turn. I know he does not have a lot of BB's behind but a lot of people will still slow down to a float when that short and oop and could potentially get a scare card on turn to have a chance to bet/fold at it. You dont have to call and stuff flop, but the play is fine and didnt work out for u this time.
hawkeyeK9 said:
Again, that is why we asked for any reads but we did not get a response on that. I think flat or 3bet pre is fine here but I also think you should have some idea what the plan is post depending on villian. Villian dependent you can 3bet pre and still flat one cbet on J high flop to re-eval turn. I know he does not have a lot of BB's behind but a lot of people will still slow down to a float when that short and oop and could potentially get a scare card on turn to have a chance to bet/fold at it. You dont have to call and stuff flop, but the play is fine and didnt work out for u this time.
Sorry reads are not too prevalent as we have only been at the table for 2 or 3 orbits but he has been fairly tight which lead me to beleaive he has been waiting for a hand.
TPE Pro
August 3, 2011
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3bet/call jam or fold this preflop. Flatting is terrible imo. What makes his range here be Ax every time? If it is you should 3bet call a jam preflop thinking you are ahead and he doesn't have a bigger pair. The logic on getting it in on a non face card flop just makes no sense.
Think being a good hand reader is totally irelevent as being a good reason to flat here Hawk. We shouldn't be flatting to an 18 bb stack with almost any hand, right? Plus sb has 26 bbs and bb has 31 bbs. If we flat, I think very often they will get inticed to get involved either by flatting or squeezing – both variations that will suck for us. 3 betting might leave is in a messy situation if the original raiser is a bad player by flatting us with his 18bb stack with a KJ or AT type hand.
Shove > Fold > 3b/call > Flat > 3b/fold
mmfitter said:
Think being a good hand reader is totally irelevent as being a good reason to flat here Hawk. We shouldn’t be flatting to an 18 bb stack with almost any hand, right? Plus sb has 26 bbs and bb has 31 bbs. If we flat, I think very often they will get inticed to get involved either by flatting or squeezing – both variations that will suck for us. 3 betting might leave is in a messy situation if the original raiser is a bad player by flatting us with his 18bb stack with a KJ or AT type hand.
Shove > Fold > 3b/call > Flat > 3b/fold
I see what everyone is saying. If you jam though you are getting snap called by bigger pairs and sometimes you are lucky enough to be flipping. If you 3bet you can at least get some information and base your call or fold on that because you still have two stacks in the blinds that you have no information on and they are 30bb stacks. Everything is situational imo, think there are couple decent options here but a tough situation overall.
Fold pre isn't out of the question. I make this kind of fold all the time. I don't think it's horrible at all.
rivermen123 said:
Fold pre isn't out of the question. I make this kind of fold all the time. I don't think it's horrible at all.
Agree. Fold here is perfectly fine and might actually be the best play. After we have all talked this out, folding seems to be the easiest play and our hero even said he is giving him a strong range here.
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