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88 facing shove from a limper
lespaulgman
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August 1, 2010 - 7:58 pm
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The guy that shoved here and I have some history. I have taken a bunch of pots from him (all legit hands which is kind of ironic for me) and I think this is partially a tilt from him, but I couldn't tell. I folded it, but I am a little plagued by the decision.

 

Poker Stars $10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t50/t100 Blinds – 9 players
Hand Conversion courtesy of Tournament Poker Edge

lespaulgman (BTN): BB = 47.6, t4760
fvalente159 (SB): BB = 28.4, t2840
mashymaster (BB): BB = 59.4, t5935
s_mawds (UTG): BB = 33.6, t3358
2molcov (UTG+1): BB = 65.5, t6555
chinglish007 (UTG+2): BB = 7.5, t745
TDub88 (MP1): BB = 69.2, t6920
jthrillz26 (MP2): BB = 26.4, t2645
spholiday (CO): BB = 11.0, t1100

Pre Flop: (t150) lespaulgman is BTN with 8 of clubs 8 of hearts
s_mawds calls t100, 4 folds, spholiday calls t100, lespaulgman raises to t500, 2 folds, s_mawds raises to t3358 all in, 2 folds

Final Pot: t1250
s_mawds wins t1250

Cougars4444
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August 1, 2010 - 10:10 pm
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I fold here pretty easily…..it's a huge portion of his stack and you cant really think he's going to limp 22-77…..so best case scenario we are racing for almost 3/4 of your stack.  Just feel like you can find better spots then this with 8's.  Had he been raising utg much at all or was he usually opening for a raise?  Had he limp/jammed at all to this point?

lespaulgman
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August 1, 2010 - 10:13 pm
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Cougars4444 said:

I fold here pretty easily…..it's a huge portion of his stack and you cant really think he's going to limp 22-77…..so best case scenario we are racing for almost 3/4 of your stack.  Just feel like you can find better spots then this with 8's.  Had he been raising utg much at all or was he usually opening for a raise?  Had he limp/jammed at all to this point?


He had been limp/calling virtually all of my raises and I think he was getting agitated about it.

Cougars4444
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August 1, 2010 - 10:22 pm
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If he's been limp calling all of your raises it may skew what his actual limp/jam range is here cause at that point I guess he may be capable of doing it with ATC and then calling with 8's is right.  I tend to side more on the fact he was doing this with a tighter range knowing he could limp, people would probably limp behind and since you had the button you will raise a very large percentage of the time and he can limp/jam a tighter range.  (I could be leveling myself here with this thinking).  The thing is you still have a really good stack at this stage of the tourney….for argument's sake I gave him what I consider a pretty wide range of hands that he could be limp/jamming with here and with 88 you have 48% equity against the range of  55+, ATs+, KQs, ATo+, KQo.

 

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 231,161,040  games     0.285 secs   811,091,368  games/sec

Board:
Dead:  

    equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied    
Hand 0:     48.459%      47.87%     00.59%          110654868       1362953.00   { 8c8h }
Hand 1:     51.541%      50.95%     00.59%          117780266       1362953.00   { 55+, ATs+, KQs, ATo+, KQo }

JDOG1645
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August 2, 2010 - 3:01 am
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if you havent been seeing this guy limp often or this is the first time he limped UTG and ships I let it go. Also consider the fact you both have decent stack sizes and you 5x his limp which shows some strength, I dont think he is shoving light here imo.

 

In fact I like simply flatting IP, if someone decides to squeeze we can close the action and if he repops it we can easily fold.

mistergj
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August 2, 2010 - 8:30 am
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I like Cougars thinking about his range being skewed by you constantly raising his limps and that his range is much wider than one that completely crushes us. However, in such a difficult and perhaps marginal spot I think I fold not wanting to risk that much of my stack in a tournament where I have an edge. Can't remember which pro said it, but it was something along the lines of if you have an edge on the field then there's no need to take marginal +EV spots – you only need to do this in tournaments where you don't have an edge. I'm with JDOG too on limping behind w/ 88 here – I probably ISO with only one limper or a better hand like TT+,AJ+. I also like JDOG's thinking about closing the action – something that I've not really thought of before, but definitely should have done!

lespaulgman
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August 2, 2010 - 9:32 am
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Yeah, I was thinking about limping behind and closing the action so that leads me to a follow up question: What ranges/situations do we prefer to just flat and play post-flop rather than raise and see what happens pre. I am starting to see in a lot of my play that I seem to be doing one or the other a significant amount and I am pretty sure that isn't correct, but I am not sure I understand where the middle ground is. I would be curious what others thoughts are on the subject. I am going back to the live sweats to see what is happening with the pro's when they play, but I would love to hear thoughts on this.

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