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$8 Tourney Squeeze/Resteal Spot 10 spots from the bubble
loonyone
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November 8, 2016 - 10:57 am
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Sorry for this crude post could not download the hand history from Ignition what I was able to view was incomplete I found a viable option for capturing hands and importing them to Poker Tracker 4 has anyone heard of this?

      …..//www.   acepokersolutions.   com/       Bodog-Poker-Catcher/

Ok on to the hand this is the 300/600 level with 60 ante, 8 handed  I am in the SB holding AcKc

UTG fold 10000 stack

UTG+1 16067 stack  opens to 2400

MP folds 16778 stack

HJ 4803 stack ships it

CO folds 29528 stack

BUT folds 23848 stack

SB Me 10424 stack

BB 6634 stack folds

As I thought about the options I could see the EP player doing this with 99+ AJs+ the only 2 hands I don’t want to see are KK or AA since I have blockers not likely but it is possible. The HJ with only 8 bigs can be wide here any Ace any broadway hand, really has no fold equity against the CO and Button its roughly half my stack but I figure to be ahead here.

I can’t see flatting half my stack just to whiff, I thought it would be better to shove to isolate the min raise essentially and push the original opener off his hand.

Is my thought process flawed? We were also 10 spots off the bubble 64 players left and min cash was 54th place. 

almofadinhas
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November 8, 2016 - 9:56 pm
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I shove that all day; that 4x EP is from a bad player, sometimes you will see a wider range than you expected, today I got called by QTs sort of hand, dont remember exactly, V raise pot from EP.

As you said you hold blockers to AA and KK, and you can have V dominated with AQ AJ AT, but you hold blockers to it also… but can happen.

so, this is shove for me.

loonyone
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November 9, 2016 - 10:37 am
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Ok lets say I am an in the EP openers shoes what would an appropriate opening size be given the stack sizes behind if I were to be holding what a correct range in this position be like QQ+? 

improvementss
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November 9, 2016 - 3:24 pm
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Shove it! any day, all day even with AQs I would get it in here. 

rbbeagles13
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November 10, 2016 - 10:31 am
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loonyone said
Ok lets say I am an in the EP openers shoes what would an appropriate opening size be given the stack sizes behind if I were to be holding what a correct range in this position be like QQ+?   

I think given stack sizes you want to raise an amount with your full range that gives you the best price on a steal, so that would be a minraise, as it allows for the most flexibility postflop. And I think you want to be doing that with your full range, AA and whatever the bottom of your opening range is here, maybe JTs or 55 or something. When you see players opening to this size especially at the lower stakes it often means a good hand that they are scared about playing post flop, so they’d rather GII now, like AQs or TT. I think this hand is a pretty clear shove here, especially if you think that even a small percentage of the time this player is going to open/fold on that stack (it really wouldn’t be much, but even 5% or 10% gives you enough FE to make the play).

AKs, while there are times to fold it preflop, they are not often and a strong read is needed for it to be OK IMO, and when you have under 30 and especially under 20 bbs, is often a sigh-get-it-in.

loonyone
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November 10, 2016 - 10:38 am
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I did in fact shove here which is what i believed to the correct play at the time good to have the confirmation.

So if i am in EP in a spot like this I should min raise my entire range so I can easily fold to a steal attempt by someone else at a cheaper price having only min raised with the bottom portion of my range and can continue with the top of the range.

rbbeagles13
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November 10, 2016 - 11:56 am
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loonyone said
So if i am in EP in a spot like this I should min raise my entire range so I can easily fold to a steal attempt by someone else at a cheaper price having only min raised with the bottom portion of my range and can continue with the top of the range.  

You got it. You want to be able to get away cheaply when you’re stealing but also raise the same with your entire range so as not to give away the strength of your hand when you have it. 

I find that in today’s games it’s more and more common to find people showing over the top of late position raises light, and I’ve been paid off a number of times by keeping my opening sizes the same from late position and get shoved into when I have a monster. Play around with the sizing and see what’s comfortable for you, but the more comfortable you get with postflop play, the more you’ll want to keep your raises preflop small to allow for more postflop play and deeper postflop play when it happens.

The deeper you are postflop, the more the better players get rewarded. That’s why a viable strategy for when you play with people better than you is to shorten the stack sizes when you get to the flop. I think it was made famous by Kill Phil, but they talk about how shoving preflop eliminates a good player’s edge. There’s nothing to do but fold or call, you can’t be outplayed. Obvious you won’t be openshoving 30 + BBs pre, but it’s the principle of the matter.

And on the flip side, if you feel you have a huge edge over the field or the player you are against, you want to keep the raise sizes small to allow for more maneuverability postflop.

almofadinhas
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November 10, 2016 - 8:49 pm
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With 17bb you should not steal from EP. Probably not MP as well. FP with tight blinds can work.

What is your range for that anyways? mini raise 17bb EP and fold to a 3bet?

theginger45

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November 11, 2016 - 7:02 am
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almofadinhas said
With 17bb you should not steal from EP. Probably not MP as well. FP with tight blinds can work.

What is your range for that anyways? mini raise 17bb EP and fold to a 3bet?  

It’s entirely possible to steal (by which I figure you mean have a raise-folding range) in EP with 17bb. You can do it with 12-15bb. Spend some time with HRC calculations with approximate ranges for players behind and you’ll see that if the BB is folding more than they should and people aren’t reshoving or flatting much, it’s fine to do that.

WRT the hand in question, a very comfortable shove. I think something like TT+ AQs+ is fine here since the original raiser might be quite strong but can also make some really bad folds, and you don’t need a huge amount of equity when you’re way ahead of the short stack and there’s a lot in the pot.

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