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August 13, 2012
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second blind 50-100,starting stack 15 k,so i dont really know the players to well just what i saw in fisrt 40 min first blind,maybe my size for 4b ing its to small,im not sure though,,i think its fine ,maybe for live play i should make it biger ,,
im utg+1 : utg opens to 250,i flat with k
k
,a fold,midle 3b to 550,buton flats ,utg flats ,comes to me and i make it 1900,all players call:
flop: q10
3,utg checks,i bet 3,1 k ,all 3 players call
turn: j,utg check,i check,midle check,bt bets 4k,utg and me fold,midle calls,river 5,check midle,bt bets again 4 k,midle folds,,
so my thinkin after all 3 called pf,and flop came q103,that im betting 3,1 k with intention to fold to a shove (i think utg and bt easy can have tens,maybe midle too,he could have qq too after he 3b and then flats)..so when i cbet and all called its a nightmare considering the turn j spade( i thought flush came,and ak came,so one of them got to have ak or aq) i eliminated sets cause that raises the flop i think,,so i check fold considering the size bt makes 4k in 20 k i think its 4 value and i dont think im ahead of anithing on turn really.i think i played the hand well but i waiting for opinions:)
May 30, 2012
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I think you played it well Pre. Very spewie for all players to call 1900 after you flat raise which shows tremendous strength. On the flop Live, I think I would have made it 4500 to discourage draws a bit more, but it seems that with these players it would not have made any difference.
good fold on turn.
June 2, 2012
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Don't really like flatting KK here UTG+1. You are going to invite everyone in behind you to come in and do you really want to play KK in a big pot multi-way OOP? Flat is fine though if you knew there was a really good chance that someone would 3b in later position. Raise to 750 because doing this will polarize the ranges of people behind you if you do get flatted, if not I'm sure UTG isn't folding so you can punish him IP post-flop.
August 13, 2012
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The only way I like the flat with KK if you know your table is aggro. Your 4 bet on the other hand was to small. You are inviting so many people to beat you. Why not make it more. You are playing so deep if you and everyone else started the hand with 300 bbs. There is 2k in the pot before you make your raise to 1900. You are inviting any hands that are connected suiters and small pair. You need to be HU with your hand and not 4 ways. Yea the blinds are only 50-100, but I don't think you really understand how much was in the pot when you 4 bet. You might have just thought it got 3betted to 550 so I will make it 3x that. If you would have thought about it another 30 seconds you would have made it something like 2700-2975. In that area. Maybe more. No more than 4k though.
August 13, 2012
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i dont think that big size its the solution either:) no one understood my hand ( there was a guy from pokermagasine that was updating live ,and sad my hand has no sence:)) the thing is..that in the end i told the guy that bet turn and river :i bet u have aq spade( i was courious ) and he shows aq off,so he was just a fish,he was betting value aq turn and river:)) hilarious but thats what u find in live mtt s,not much u cand do about it..;) nice hand anyway
August 11, 2012
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Any reason why you didn't 3bet pre? I find live players are pretty terrible and will call with worse then go into check call mode. Bet bet bet and fold if they raise turn or river. I would make it 800 or 900 pre otherwise you get in these weird spots and it's hard to put people on hands :(.
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August 13, 2012
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does it matter why i didnt 3b? the subject is: it turned to be just what i wanted a 3b and 2 callers so its perfect spot for me to 4b and take a hu or maybe 3 way..but what can u do when hes calling a 3b and then a 4b with aqo..?and then hes betting 4 value from that hand considering he s got the nuts in that case:)) its funny,but thats live poker at least ..
May 30, 2012
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3 pre > flat and backraise. I much prefer 3betting because we create a much smaller field and live fish dont fold much at all, as played i def bet turn and probably fire on the river also, turns up with AQ AsJ A10 KQ KJ K10 109 enough for it to be ok when he has us crushed. AQ was not going to raise us on this turn, so just b/f b/f b/f for value.
August 13, 2012
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“”p>3 pre > flat and backraise. I much prefer 3betting because we create a much smaller field and live fish dont fold much at all, as played i def bet turn and probably fire on the river also, turns up with AQ AsJ A10 KQ KJ K10 109 enough for it to be ok when he has us crushed. AQ was not going to raise us on this turn, so just b/f b/f b/f for value.
“”
u just play ur holdings? we have kk so i could be ahead on turn too? not giving range for oponent too? not to mention that all 3 called my cbet ..i dont think ur right at all to bet turn and river for value,hoping we win 🙂
October 6, 2010
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not 3betting this pre is horrible imo. people behind isolating in a live tourney is just wishful thinking most of the time. your backraise pretty much turns your hand face up to KK+ imo.
really dont like how this played out.
May 30, 2012
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….. we can bet for value because opponents can call with worse as iv indicated. i posted the part of his range we crush because thats the part that matters when betting for value, they can have Q10 J10 K9, (maybe AK but i highly doubt he doesnt 5bet your weird flat 4bet.) and ATC that are spades, still we should bet turn for value since single spade hands call, A and 9 rivers are good for us, we block peoples gutterballs, and have more than enough equity to bet for value. given the scary runout hands that beat us are def raising flop or turn so we maximise our value from worse and minimise our losses v the part of their ranges that beat us.
May 30, 2012
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also the backraise is super polarised to KK+ and like 78s some of the time where you decided to resqueeze after flatting.
3bet pre 10000000% unless you intend to set mine because UTG has AA
July 20, 2012
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preflop I prefer a 3bet there, I don't think you are going to scare off action too often whereas by flatting you could well find yourself in a multiway pot, and when you are lucky enough for someone to 3bet you, you are then going to give your hand away by 4betting (though in this case no-one seemed to pick up on that).
When you cbet flop and get calls from everyone I think you can eliminate sets from their range for the most part. Also FDs are going to raise there a lot, esp Qxss. The turn looks scary as it does complete 2 draws and could potentially give someone a set there. Having said that, if you continue betting here then any raise now is almost certainly ahead and you can then safely fold (only really making a bad fold to AsQx). Also, as said, a lot of the hands ahead of you now would have already raised on the flop. The turn shouldn't complete many 2 pair hands given the preflop action and so the only likely hands that you are now losing to that you weren't before are AK and JJ. Because of that I think it's a good spot to barrel for value and protection, getting called by AQ, KQ and FDs (folding to raise).
You can then evaluate the river to decide whether to barrel again for value, c/c or c/f on some scare cards.
August 13, 2012
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….. we can bet for value because opponents can call with worse as iv indicated. i posted the part of his range we crush because thats the part that matters when betting for value, they can have Q10 J10 K9, (maybe AK but i highly doubt he doesnt 5bet your weird flat 4bet.) and ATC that are spades, still we should bet turn for value since single spade hands call, A and 9 rivers are good for us, we block peoples gutterballs, and have more than enough equity to bet for value. given the scary runout hands that beat us are def raising flop or turn so we maximise our value from worse and minimise our losses v the part of their ranges that beat us.
“”
q10,k9?? read again the hand and tell me wich of those 3 players ever have q10 or k9 ? :)) u jokin? and second thing i desegree is : for good players i agree its a mistake my line cause they give me kk aa after 4b ,but after he is valueing top pair top kicker,it turned to be a good pot for me,if a safe turn arives,i take a easy double at a 770 euro mtt second blind,so with weaker players i think u can take obvious lines( and i did it many times i think u must if ur convinced that player will pay)
August 13, 2012
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preflop I prefer a 3bet there, I don’t think you are going to scare off action too often whereas by flatting you could well find yourself in a multiway pot, and when you are lucky enough for someone to 3bet you, you are then going to give your hand away by 4betting (though in this case no-one seemed to pick up on that).
When you cbet flop and get calls from everyone I think you can eliminate sets from their range for the most part. Also FDs are going to raise there a lot, esp Qxss. The turn looks scary as it does complete 2 draws and could potentially give someone a set there. Having said that, if you continue betting here then any raise now is almost certainly ahead and you can then safely fold (only really making a bad fold to AsQx). Also, as said, a lot of the hands ahead of you now would have already raised on the flop. The turn shouldn’t complete many 2 pair hands given the preflop action and so the only likely hands that you are now losing to that you weren’t before are AK and JJ. Because of that I think it’s a good spot to barrel for value and protection, getting called by AQ, KQ and FDs (folding to raise).
You can then evaluate the river to decide whether to barrel again for value, c/c or c/f on some scare cards.
i agree with most u sad,and i think 4b is obvious kk aa,so my line is bad im convinced now..BUT in this case it worked they looked at me like im blufing (“ohhh u trying to get the pot now ha,one of them sad pf) so u see it was a good spot ..and with the right fish..anyway u must give tighter ranges for second blind and a pretty big 4b at such a bi tournament( in my experience they play tighter this days) so i think flush draws dont always raise the flop to get it in,and am its more then probabily to be there..( i remember i looked at those 3 when turn arived and i though : ok 10 10 qq u font have ,aq s i think u raise the flop,so maybe a nice suited con that get there on turn or ak i was convinced:)
May 30, 2012
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giving them a range that beats you when they have shown no aggression makes zero sense. this is live poker so everyone is loose passive, (especially given button overcall/c and UTG r/c/c and 3b/c). I also dont understand why AQ would raise the flop. especially suited. 3b pre, b/f flop b/f turn. c/f turn is super weak. worse hands definitely call you enough to make it a good bet given better hands will raise aswell and we dont want to c/c v passives.
June 3, 2012
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Jumping on the bandwagon, but 3betting this 100% of the time.
On the flop im b/f. With so many people in the hand, if im getting raised they have to be ahead. As played though, i fire the turn again, anyone with the A(spades) is calling, and weaker pairs. But again im B/F. River im B/F again.
August 13, 2012
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Jumping on the bandwagon, but 3betting this 100% of the time.
On the flop im b/f. With so many people in the hand, if im getting raised they have to be ahead. As played though, i fire the turn again, anyone with the A(spades) is calling, and weaker pairs. But again im B/F. River im B/F again.
that was my thinkin too ,thats why i bet the flop a smaller size, b/f ,and on turn i have 8 k left and the pot its 20 k dont have b/f ,i just c/f,the blind was 100 so still enough to play
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