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April 5, 2014
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OK this one had me a little vexed and the hand history still isnt available for download yet.
Blinds are 100/200 I have 51bb and am UTG+2 at a full table of 9 players.
UTG+1 has 35bb and raised 3x to 600. I haven’t been on the table terribly long but he doesn’t seem to be a loose type of player so I believe he has some kind of decent hand here. Something like 88+ Ajo to Ak suited possibly A/10 suited. Of course the big pairs are in this range as well. So i am confident of being ahead of a large part of his range here.
Hero with QQ reraised to 1400. In hind sight im thinking this is on the small size.
Everyone folds around to the button who has 129bb.
Button raises to 4075. He has been active but I don’t recall seeing a hand that would be out of line and in my limited time at the table i hadn’t seen a 3 bet let alone a 4 bet.
UTG+1 calls leaving 3075 behind.
Hero?
April 30, 2015
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The fact that you don't mention what your holdings are, makes me take this stance 😉 –
I would have folded 72o in a heartbeat without 3-betting preflop and even as played :D. If I have AA, I am shoving here, I am sure to get 2 callers.
But seriously, I would love to make this thread as a guessing game until the OP posts what he has. If hero is 3-betting and contemplating after a 4-bet and a call, I am putting the hero on AKs, AQs, JJ, QQ. Any other hand, I am thinking the hero can easily find a fold here, or a shove with AA/KK. I would even fold AQs, JJ here.
April 5, 2014
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Sorry was trying to do to many things at once I fixed it.
August 10, 2014
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I'm torn on this one because people can do some crazy things on Bovada. Jam or fold I think.
This hand is a good example of why 3betting in early position isn't too helpful. Even against the fishy players on Bovada, with these positions flatting is going to be > 3betting. I'd be much happier shoving over the btn if we had flatted and he 3bet.
Otherwise, your min 3bet versus UTG looks super strong even to a fishy player. I don't think the BTN is going to be light here too often.
You're probably getting the right price to flat versus a range of AK KK+, but it'll be tough to play well post. So it is better to jam or fold.
Not saying it is easy to do in the moment but I think we gotta let this one go. UTG and BTN are just nutted too often here unless you have a reason to think otherwise.
April 5, 2014
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Gunn i am interesting in your rational for flatting rather than 3 betting here. Is it to try and trap another opponent like the button who has position into possibly squeezing?
Im my mind with QQ dont we want to get more in the pot especially against a shorter stacked UTG raiser?I was thinking it would fold around back to him and he would either fold or shove and then id snap call the shove with a fist pump and a thank you baby jesus. But the hand didnt go according to plan.
August 10, 2014
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Hmm I thought villain was UTG and you were UTG+1, my fault.
Still, villain is an early position open and you are in early position.
If you think about his opening range in that position, how many hands do you think he’s going to 4bet shove over your 3bet that we feel good about calling? We’re sort of just hoping he has AK in that situation.
Flatting keeps our range wider, and tees us up for a profitable 4bet shove vs a late position squeeze.
February 20, 2015
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When you 3-bet cold and you’re not in late position, there are a lot of hands left to act who could 4-bet, and then what do you do? If you flat and someone squeezes, you’re more likely to close the action, meaning you will see a flop and also get better odds calling pre.
June 11, 2012
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wowowowowo,
first i think your preflop range for UTG1 is way too tight.
QQ next to act i am more in the flatting camp here. if we get 4bet-shoved its most likely a fold as he should only do it with KK+,AK given the positions.
with the active player left behind i like flatting and hope he squeezes and than jam over that depeding on UTG1 reaction.
as played i think its a sigh fold. at least one of them has a monster. and i see monster under the bed more in UTG1 range with his line.
April 5, 2014
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My thought was that for me to 3 bet a raiser from early position, get 4 bet and then UTG+1 just flats for basically his entire stack he had to have queens beat here. He would have to be a worse donk than me to just flat with less than queens. The remainder of his stack is sure to go in on the flop either way.
If he hadnt of done that i had every intention of flatting the button raise to see what the flop brought. I felt like the best case scenario was for me to be up against AKoff suit in this position so i gave it the angry old man fist shake and folded.
Utg+1 went all in on the flop like I he figured he would and the button snapped called.
UTG+1 had AJo
Button had AK suited in spades.
Neither player made a pair and the king played.
This hand bothered me because i do tend to see monsters under the bed an am way tighter than i need to be. I was doubting that this should have been a fold because i know that if i had say 15-25 big blinds here i probably would have pushed all in without thinking about it. But with my stack size 5 betting would have basically put me all in. Id be hoping the button folds in case he does have that monster which just seemed like a bad play. And pushing all in pre seemed spewy. I still dont know how i feel about this hand.
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