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$55 PKO: Finding Bluffs after Defending the BB
DuckinDaDeck
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October 8, 2018 - 10:09 pm
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I’ll have very few gutshots on this board, and I’m not looking to check-raise a ton of flush draws on this flop. Is this hand a good choice for my check-raising range? Decent turn to keep betting, how do we feel about the sizing?

PokerStars – 150/300 Ante 40 NL (8 max) – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 84.35 BB
UTG+1: 78.77 BB
MP: 75.09 BB
MP+1: 83.23 BB
CO: 37.8 BB
BTN: 72.9 BB
SB: 137.71 BB
Hero (BB): 76.51 BB

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.57 BB) Hero has 9spade Theart

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 2.2 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.2 BB

Flop: (5.97 BB, 2 players) 8spade Aheart 3heart
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 2.86 BB, Hero raises to 8.94 BB, MP+1 calls 6.08 BB

Turn: (23.85 BB, 2 players) Kheart
Hero bets 12.4 BB

rppoker
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October 9, 2018 - 1:11 am
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Your preflop call out of the BB can mean anything, so you haven’t told a story yet.

The check-raise postflop would make sense for a flush draw. The story is starting to come into focus, but it is not yet crystal clear.

On the turn you continue to bet, which you would do if you got there with the flush draw (but not the nut flush draw, which perhaps you might slow play to induce). The sizing seems to tell the story that you are betting for value. At this point you seem pretty polarized between having made the flush (the story you are trying to tell) or having pure air (which at the moment is what you have).

I think that if you had 9h, 10h (instead of 9s, 10h) you would conceivably take this line.

So the story you are telling seems believable to me, but that is answering in a vacuum. I think a lot depends on what your image has been. Is your image that you are bluffing a lot or does the table view you as betting what you have?

Also, what is villain’s image? Is he sticky? If his image is that he doesn’t like to fold then your bet looks especially strong.

It is difficult to answer without knowing the dynamic of you and the villain.

rppoker
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October 9, 2018 - 1:24 am
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One other question, how is it that everyone at the table is so deep? Short stack is 37.8 BB and everyone else is 72.9 BB or more.

Maniackid11
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October 9, 2018 - 6:53 am
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I like this hand. I want to say maybe a little bigger on the turn but then again I like the sizing because it’s not to big to induce anything crazy but you’re both deep enough where I don’t think it nec. could.  If villain calls, I think we are slowing down on the river, depending on what comes. He could be holding the Q or J of hearts. But this seems like a good spot to bluff. Because you’re in the BB and you could be holding anything, villain shouldn’t be too worried that you have two hearts which would make it perfect on the turn if you actually were. If villain has something like AQ or AJ with Q or J of hearts then we are in trouble. My guess is villain folded to your turn bet. If he didn’t, he had something like AJ or AQ with the J or Q of hearts. I have to go to work, otherwise I would look into this a lot more.

Foucault

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October 9, 2018 - 8:50 am
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There’s a fair chance you could get a solver to tell you that you can check-raise this some % of the time, but in practice I don’t like it. It’s certainly not among your best check-raise candidates, and given that it will be difficult for you to find value check-raises, it’s easy for you to end up imbalanced towards bluffs. Of course that would be fine if you expected your opponent to overfold, but if anything I’d expect the opposite on this board.

I can understand the appeal of this hand, but you’ll have better backdoor flush draws. The trouble with this one is that it doesn’t block as much of V’s continuing range as the Kh or Qh would, and in many cases where you run out a flush it won’t be live.

Bottom line, though: it’s tough to fight back on Ace-high boards. It’s tough to float, and it’s tough to check-raise, because your opponent will just so often have the Ace, and when he does your equity is very poor. This has been a leak of mine as well. On board textures like this, you just have to do a lot of check-folding.

DuckinDaDeck
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October 9, 2018 - 10:45 pm
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I think you hit the nail on the head Andrew, thanks for the feedback. This check-raise was definitely a stretch, partially motivated by villain’s 92% in position cbet (11/12 so hardly reliable), but I think it’s a bridge too far considering how many Aces villain will have. I like being able to turn straight draws on 16 cards, but considering blockers and stronger one card flushes, I have many better bluffs for my <=24 value combos (24 if I never 3bet A8/A3s BB v HJ and always check-raise my 2 pairs and sets).

If I want to have any backdoor straight draws in my range, the 3 combos of JheartTx would be better but they’re still pretty dubious. As mentioned in other posts, I’m trying to add more aggression to my strategy as I move up the buy-ins. Having a relatively steep negative redline has been working for me at lower stakes, but it’s hurting my win rate against player pools that can pick up postflop tendencies well. Still, I 100% agree that there are much better spots to get after it than Ace high boards with a huge range disadvantage.

rppoker said
So the story you are telling seems believable to me, but that is answering in a vacuum. I think a lot depends on what your image has been. Is your image that you are bluffing a lot or does the table view you as betting what you have?

Also, what is villain’s image? Is he sticky? If his image is that he doesn’t like to fold then your bet looks especially strong.

It is difficult to answer without knowing the dynamic of you and the villain.  

Villain and I don’t have much relevant history, have played a little over 500 hands together but that’s over the past 10 months. For this session, image isn’t a factor as we’ve only played about 20 hands. Can’t say if he might have notes on me from our history, my only notes on him are speculation about turn bet sizing. Villain’s WWSF is 47% and WTSD is 41%, which are both somewhat high for his 21% VPIP, but hardly exceptional (and 500 is a small sample for those). Aside from the high cbet frequency, there’s nothing readily apparent that separates him from any other reg with slightly above average aggression. 

Everyone’s so deep because it’s the Bounty Builder series that Pstars is running. This is only the 2nd level, starting stack was 25k with 125/250 blinds.

Maniackid11 said
My guess is villain folded to your turn bet. If he didn’t, he had something like AJ or AQ with the J or Q of hearts. 

River: (48.65 BB, 2 players) 9diamond
Hero checks, MP+1 checks

Hero shows: 9spade Theart (One Pair, Nines)
(Pre 61%, Flop 30%, Turn 32%)
MP+1 mucks: 8diamond 7diamond (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 39%, Flop 70%, Turn 68%)
Hero wins 48.65 BB

Never expected to see that at showdown. Not sure if villain has seen me spew chips a few times or maybe just stickier than I realized… calling flop check-raise makes sense but that turn call boggles the mind a bit. I’ve got to stop posting hands where villains show up with the stone bottom of their range. Past few hands are exceptions to the rule, I promise.

Mental Game Tangent: Part of what made this hand memorable was a weird line of thought on the turn. Despite getting ~ the top 10% of possible cards, my brain got hung up on “Ugh, now he’s never folding KK/AK” and it was hard to get past that kind of loss aversion based thinking. My instincts were completely out of whack. Probably stems from playing the flop differently than I usually would and, to a lesser extent, being conscious of my somewhat limited experience at buy-ins >$30. Kind of funny that I can still struggle with such thoughts after nearly 15 years and well over 2 million hands… 

Foucault

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October 10, 2018 - 7:53 am
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DuckinDaDeck said
Kind of funny that I can still struggle with such thoughts after nearly 15 years and well over 2 million hands…   

I know the feeling!

almofadinhas
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October 19, 2018 - 2:43 pm
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I lost myself in this hand, sorry to ask, but: Are you not 3betting strong Aces pre flop? If not makes more sense to check/raise OTF I would guess;

DuckinDaDeck
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October 19, 2018 - 3:12 pm
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Yeah, I have very few if any single pairs that take this line. Any Ax that might be strong enough to check-raise would 3bet preflop. I might flat from the BB with AQ but if I’m ever check-raising one pair on this board it’s AK. I’m basically repping sets, A8s, A3s, and FDs when I check-raise the flop.

almofadinhas
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October 19, 2018 - 3:59 pm
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Since V has one 8, blocking middle set and A8, and the Ah OTF blocks your A high flush, may explain the loose call with 87;

How would you play Kx and Qx flush draw? I probably would take a passive line oop to leave V with small FDs

Why not shove the river? If I calculate it right you have a PSB, I think AK would have folded for a shove, but again, for the limits I play, not sure how better players will, I have only one $55 played in my history jejeje; not sure about KK on Vs range, since the cbet ip otf.

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