View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
$5 Final table: What are you doing with KK here?
Julius187
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 103
Member Since:
June 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
February 22, 2013 - 10:36 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

At the final table of the $500 Gtd $5 tournament on Merge. I had enetered the final table 8/9, but had just doubled up the hand before when I opened KQ, bet/3bet shoved a Q8xhh flop and held against A9hh. The blinds are only 600/1200 so most of us are quite deep. The BB I have marked as a fish. My plan is to get it in pre with anyone obviously. On flop I have no qualms about playing for BTN's 20bb, but then when BB cold 3bets, I'm kind of in a sticky spot. What are you guys doing here?

 

Merge – $0+$0|<> NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (UTG): 72,376.00
UTG+1: 53,282.00
MP: 23,690.00
MP+1: 118,060.00
CO: 91,219.00
BTN: 23,135.00
SB: 69,009.00
BB: 53,229.00

Hero posts ante 120.00, UTG+1 posts ante 120.00, MP posts ante 120.00, MP+1 posts ante 120.00, CO posts ante 120.00, BTN posts ante 120.00, SB posts ante 120.00, BB posts ante 120.00, SB posts SB 600.00, BB posts BB 1,200.00

Pre Flop: (2760.00) Hero has  Kspade Kdiamond

[color=red]Hero raises to 2,400.00[/color], fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls 2,400.00, fold, BB calls 1,200.00

Flop: (8760.00, 3 players)  6diamond Tdiamond 3heart
BB checks, [color=red]Hero bets 3,125.00[/color], [color=red]BTN raises to 20,615.00 and is all-in[/color], [color=red]BB raises to 38,105.00[/color]

Psellos
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 50
Member Since:
May 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
February 22, 2013 - 11:40 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

this spot sucks balls, i think(like to think) i would fold here as much as it pains me to do so. we still have 50bbs if we fold and are still well in it. your small cbet may look really weak to your opponents and btn will be shoving lots of lower pairs, draws and tp weak kicker hands but i think the bb has to have a set or monster draw to make a play like this. you say he is fishy, has he shown down any hands that indicated he gets too attached to hands like tptk? i hate it but i fold, in a $5 tourney our edge should negate this setback.

terbet11
Balla
Members
Forum Posts: 326
Member Since:
May 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
February 22, 2013 - 4:35 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Barf! After reading through this situation several times, there are a couple ways to look at this imo.  First off, I like your c bet sizing on the flop especially if this is the sizing you are leading with air as well.  Having a smaller c bet gives the villain(s) tool equity to shover over you with.  In regards to the hand I definitely agree with you and am calling button all day long.  Now when the bb 4 bets basically commiting to the hand it is either a monster or a big draw.  By just flatting pre, he will definitely have 33 or 66 in his range for sure, but with the fishy tendancies you marked about him a fd isn't that far out of his range as well. 

 

 When looking at this, you can call and if ahead and hold you are in an ideal spot to win the tourney.  If you call and lose, you are still left with @15bb to fight with.  I really think this is player dependent, but it is sure tough to lay this hand down especially if we are going for the win. I agree with Psellos as well and don't argue a fold either leaving yourself with @50bb to play with and you can see the hands, but this is also where I say if the villain has flopped 2 pair+ then nice hand.  I would love to hear what others say.  Great run btw and best of luck at the tables.

duggs
nz
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 591
Member Since:
May 30, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
February 22, 2013 - 9:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

snap fold, you dont play well v both their ranges, they have all combos of sets and its ICM suicide to get into a spot like this

Julius187
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 103
Member Since:
June 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
February 23, 2013 - 10:45 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I think the biggest factor leaning me towards a fold is that we are all still really deep, and not taking a high variance spot. While it's true that if I have the best hand and hold I probably win the tournament, but that doesn't mean I can't play solid and grind my way through the final table, 50bbs is heaps. I wasn't factoring ICM all that much, it's a $5 tournament so the money jumps aren't all that pressing to me. I am aware of the strategy implications of ICM, but I'm most likely going to do whatever makes me most likely to win the tournament.

In that case I felt the best option was to lay this down and use my skill edge to give myself a better chance to win than be left with 20bb.

Al29
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 122
Member Since:
February 18, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
February 23, 2013 - 4:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I'm calling here, probably why I suck when I get down to the last 2 tables but I figure with your previous double up you aren't getting credit for a hand like KK. I know a set of 10s is in buttons range and sets of 3s and 6s in the SBs range, but A10, K10 and flush draws are also in the ranges.

I guess regardless of whether you folded or called that you got to see the other 2 hands so would be interested to hear what they had, though appreciate this is about making a +EV decision, not necessarily the right decision for this actual hand – which is probably where I'm going wrong. =0(

Julius187
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 103
Member Since:
June 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
February 24, 2013 - 11:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I agree, but what we also need to consider is that sometimes the most +chipEV play may not be the most +$EV play. If my opponents were tough regs I might take the gamble here and hope I'm ahead and hold. Against this soft competition I think the right play is to get away from this cheaply and get the chips back continuously punishing the nits and fish.

 

The BTN had JJ (his non-standard line actually cost me here), while the BB had A7dd for the nut flush draw. I did fold, and the 8d hit right on the turn. A buddy of mine whom I talk poker with a good amount says that I should be calling there. He's mostly a cash player so I wanted some MTTers' perspectives.

Al29
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 122
Member Since:
February 18, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
February 25, 2013 - 2:21 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I guess it was a good fold then, but if you call in this spot every time when you are ahead it gives you the opportunity to win the tournament and take the big money, and increased roll = increased buy ins. I guess if you can fold and still win then its the better line.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
70 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Philbro

acekingsuited

Lber16

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12005

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1