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Only had 25 hands on villian, playing 25/20, mostly late position steals. Only hand he's shown down is JJ. I've been very tight. Obviously I'm not folding 10s this deep, but I think I did absolutely everything wrong here. I was debating whether to 3bet pre, but decided to just set mine and ditch it if I missed. The flop looked pretty good for my hand, so I donk led (probably a mistake). On the turn I figured if I checked it would look too weak (even though it probably hits his range pretty hard). Really hate this type of hand where you're forced to play OOP, so is the best play to just 3bet/fold pre?
Poker Stars $40+$4 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t60/t120 Blinds + t15 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Schildy1984 (MP1): BB = 33.0, t3955
prebz (MP2): BB = 45.0, t5402
stato_1 (CO): BB = 22.1, t2650
Hubertus91 (BTN): BB = 27.9, t3353
Hero (SB): BB = 52.4, t6290
Gadol Kesef (BB): BB = 35.9, t4310
mmario0121 (UTG): BB = 41.4, t4970
PaulSmiley (UTG+1): BB = 48.6, t5834
fisherist (UTG+2): BB = 24.9, t2985
Pre Flop: (t315) Hero is SB with T
T
1 fold, PaulSmiley raises to t282, 5 folds, Hero calls t222, Gadol Kesef calls t162
Flop: (t981) 8
6 8 (3 players)
Hero bets t441, Gadol Kesef folds, PaulSmiley calls t441
Turn: (t1863) K (2 players)
Hero bets t838, PaulSmiley calls t838
River: (t3539) 4
(2 players)
Hero checks, PaulSmiley bets t2123, Hero folds
Final Pot: t3539
PaulSmiley wins t3539
I think pre is fine. Don't think he is going to call your 3bet with much worse than TT, so you keep his range wide what is nice.
Otf i don't get why you donkbet there. Why not just check-call or doing a small check-raise? I think i prefer the check-raise there, because we get the initiative right there combined with a lot of fold-equity and protect our hand from seeing a bad turn.
I think a donkbet makes your hand so face up right there, anything worse should fold and anything better should raise you there.
As played i would just check the turn, since he won't call a second barrel with much worse than an overpair or a Kx.
Again as played i think the river is a reasonable fold, bc he wouldn't have a reason to bet there with a hand worse than yours, apart from pulling off a complete bluff on a missed draw. I mean it looks pretty full of it due to his calls on previous streets, but whatever … the sizing indicates he has sth better than a 2nd pair (if its for value).
Hmmm, ok, I think that the pre flop play is fine. Imo there is no reason to bloat the pot this deep oop with a hand that that can get you in trouble post. I do call pre as well with the intentions of set mining, but also know that my hand does have value that I want to get to showdown with.
On the flop, I would prefer a c/c with the paired board. The villain is going to be c betting a majority of his range and I would c/c for value while controling the size of the pot. On turn, I again prefer a c/c to evaluate villains play. It will be a good card for him to double barrel with and yes hits his range, but c/c again controls the pot and you can evaluate river.
On ther river, I don't think the card changes much obviously so I actually would prefer to lead @ 1/2 pot for both value and to block with. I am looking to get value from worse pocket pairs, or having the villain hero call with aq, aj, etc., with the main intention of controlling the size of the pot. If you get called and our on the wrong side of it, no worries. If you get raised on the river you know you are no good, safely fold, and you still have plenty of chips to play with.
I agree with you and the two posts above that I would also just call preflop, I'm not just set mining though as I think we probably have the best hand. The flop is obviously a great one for your hand but I see no reason to donk lead. I think you could either check/call or check/raise this flop.
A check call is obviously more passive and you are then hoping to get to a showdown as cheaply as possible.
A check raise is pretty much giving your hand away as I wouldn't expect a flopped full house to raise here. But if you do have the best hand now to his 2 overcards then your hand is vulnerable to a lot of scare cards on the turn and I would be happy to take the pot now. Unless you are up against the BigDog or some other very creative player, he will still have to have something to make the call, and if he 3bets you then you know your 10s are behind and you can safely fold. If he does flat your raise then you will still face an awkward spot on most turns. I think I would check any turn now (except the 10), if he then bet then I would expect him to be ahead most of the time and lay my hand down as having bloated the pot check calling is now very expensive.
I think either of the two above lines would be fine though personally I would prefer to check raise and either take the pot now or find out I am behind.
Thanks for the well thought out replies guys. I never really thought about how my hand must have looked from the villain’s point of view, and I guess that considering my calling range from the sb, and the way I played it, it was pretty easy to put me on a medium pocket pair. I like the check raise on the flop idea as it puts the pressure back on him, and we’ll probably heve a better idea of where we are depending on how he reacts.
July 3, 2010
Offline
Stick in a healthy sized c/r on the flop and fold to a shove.
TPE Pro
August 3, 2011
Offline
Good responses already… here are my thoughts:
Flat is good preflop as we are fairly deep here and oop no need to turn 10s into a bluff if he 4 bets and build the pot oop.
I prefer check/raising the flop to control the size of the pot and find out where we are in the hand.
On the turn you can lead for 1/3 pot still controlling the size of the pot looking to get to showdown cheap as the K is a scare card. If he raises we are folding. We don't want to check this turn because he basically has to bet and represent the K every time here in position and then if we c/c it could put us in a difficult spot on the river.
If he calls turn, I would check river as the only hands he should be betting for value are maybe JJs+,AK if he just called either of those of the flop c/r. So if he fires a river bet I am over it and NH sir.
but decided to just set mine and ditch it if I missed.
I think this is a flaw in your thinking. You should be flatting for value and deception rather than to setmine. TT is a strong hand but it is probs maxEV to flat over 3betting. The reason being that you keep in a bunch of dominated hands like underpairs and look to get a lot of value on boards like this one.
I think c/r flop is best line, but not to pot control like some others said but more because a bunch of the hands you kept in pre will now be stacking off on this texture. Your perceived range for flatting is going to reasonably have enough draws in it for a hand like 99/77 to justify just going with it. Furthermore, some naked overs may spazz out vs c/r here too.
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