June 3, 2012
This hand is from the Borgata $100k Guaranteed deep stack, there are about 90-100 players left with 63 reaching the money so we are getting close. New TPE pro Jamie Kerstetter recently moved to the table a couple of orbits ago two seats to my right. We have played in a few tournaments before at early/mid stages and I have a decent idea of her game, what she is capable of, and that's she's an MTT reg. Likewise, I'm pretty sure she knows I'm an MTT reg, competent, capable of making aggressive plays, and so on. Never have gotten into any deep strategy discussions with her, but we were bantering a bit about TPE stuff and her articles, etc.
So on to the hand: Blinds are 2500/5000/500a, going up to 3k/6k/500a in about 15 minutes. Table seems to have been playing pretty slow with people taking a long time for what seemed like simple spots.
Jamie – CO – 140-150k
Hero – SB – 130k
Random – BB – 60k
Preflop (12500), folds around to Jamie who opens for 11.5k, btn folds, I have AQcc in the small blind. I feel Jamie is opening pretty wide here as she should be. I am trying to decide between 3 possible lines here, though more considering two of them.
1. 3b shove – not my favorite, though I'm definitely ahead of Jamie's opening range, I push out too many hands I have dominated which may give me action. Plus I feel 26bb is a little much to be jamming over a 2.3x open. It lets her play a lot better against my hand as she will never fold a better hand (though I probably fold out 66-88, maybe 99). Probably the lowest variance option as I'll be getting folds a majority of the time.
2. 3b/call – Definitely willing to get it in her against her CO open, and making it 28.5k gives her room to 4bet shove especially since she should know I'm capable of being light. She also has a great stack size for 4bet shoving. While I still get it in against the range I'm crushed against, this allows me to get it in against some more hands I'm beating.
3. Flat – While 3b/call is probably the most standard line in this spot, I feel like there are some merits to flatting. Biggest one being the sunglasses hoodie guy in the BB. If he takes the squeeze spot, I can get it in against the both of them in a spot where I will be well ahead of their ranges, as Jamie won't likely think I'm that strong and iso-shove, or if she folds it's an easy snap against the BB. If the BB folds, it will disguise the strength of my hand and she will probably have a hard time getting off AJ-A9 or KQ/QJ if the A or Q hits. There are also flops I can check/shove draws and such.
So while debating between options 2 and 3 I ultimately decided to go with 3. Unfortunately the BB did something unexpected and just flatted here, so we go 3-handed to a flop.
Flop (39500) JTTr (no clubs)
Hero checks, BB checks, Jamie bets 22k
Hero ???
So now trying to decide on semi-bluff shoving or just folding. While I flatted with intentions of making plays on boards such as this one, there is a very short stacked player to contend with. She is betting into 2 players on a board that should be hitting our ranges pretty hard (or at least mine). She could possibly be bet/folding, as she left herself with 20-22bb, but I'm not so sure she's bluffing especially being committed to call the BB. What do you guys think?
May 30, 2012
I think preflop 3 bet/calling is best. By 3 betting you show that you would have to call a bb shove, but you can still be doing it with a fairly wide range (suited aces, kq, pairs, etc) and jamie can definitely 4 bet jam with worse than aq. I think flatting (trying to induce) is the least likeable option. Our hand doesnt play THAT great 3 ways aipf, and the bb just isnt going to jam often enough because he knows he is going to get called by one of you. he doesnt have much fold equity at all.
As played I would just fold to her c-bet. You are sandwiched in the middle on a flop that probably hits a decent amount of both their ranges. If you semi-bluff shove flop you don't really rep a lot of value hands. Would you shove a jack or a 10? Heads up maybe, but in this spot I would be flatting my value hands to try and get the bb to tool out behind me or let jamie barrel on the turn. Your hand would more so look like kq/aq or 89ss (less likely because if she thinks you are good you probably arent flatting 89ss in this spot with your stack). If you were to continue I think flatting her bet looks a lot stronger, but it still puts you in a gross spot if the bb decides to continue in the hand.
Best thing to keep in mind is that we dont want to put ourselves in marginal spots oop against better players. It just sets us up to make a mistake later in the hand.
June 2, 2012
3b/c is obv best option. 28.5 is perfect sizing. I don't really like your logic here of flatting and hoping the BB squeezes and then Jamie isos. I mean you don't really want to get it in 3 ways here. Also the fact that Jamie knows you are competent she should know that you are light here a decent amount of the time. That being said she is def 4b jamming light and then you can snap her off. I think you leveled yourself pretty hard here and I think it's a very easy 3b/c. As played though I just c/f that flop for the same reasons stated above.
I agree with the above posts, 3bet jamming is obv bad, i'm not really a fan of just flatting, as reasons stated above. i'm not a big fan of just flatting, would rather just go heads up with Jamie than take this hand 3 ways aipf. As played i x/f too. Like you said, this flop hits our perceived pf calling range pretty well, yet she is still betting into 2 people? Shows a lot strength really, so i would be inclined to just let it go now.
But yeah i go for the 3bet pf hoping to induce Jamie to 4bet shove he weaker holdings.
June 3, 2012
Hmm.. seems I was being a little ambitious in getting the BB to shove, but a good point was made that he has virtually no fold equity so he won't be shoving too light. So I guess it was a mistake to take a non-standard line here and just got me in a tough spot. I did c/f flop, James you are absolutely right that my c/r range in this spot is almost entirely semi-bluffs and some tens, but probably not a jack, which gives me a very small value range.
Here is something I also thought about during the hand: How am I going to proceed if Jamie just flats my 3bet instead of shoving or folding? Having a bloated pot OOP against a good player kinda sucks and she's owned me in these types of spots before in other tournaments. On this flop in particular had I 3bet preflop, what is the plan of action facing JTT first to act?
August 25, 2012
Julius187 said:
Here is something I also thought about during the hand: How am I going to proceed if Jamie just flats my 3bet instead of shoving or folding? Having a bloated pot OOP against a good player kinda sucks and she's owned me in these types of spots before in other tournaments. On this flop in particular had I 3bet preflop, what is the plan of action facing JTT first to act?
You could make your 3bet bigger to around 1/3 of your stack and if she flats open shove any flop. I usually use this play vs calling stations who call alot of 3bets oop regardless of sizing but this prob. won't work against a thinking player. But, it will take care of the problem of having her just flat in postion(or you could 3bet a little smaller so you set up a slight overshove on the flop).
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