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3betting against certain stack sizes
pocketsims
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January 24, 2013 - 4:57 am
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When we wanna 3bet some1 in pos what is the ideal stack to be 3bet shoving against? shd the villian have 20 bbs or is it easeir to steal from opponents with 30-40 bbs? are the players who open with 22 bbs or so more inclined to just put the rest of thier stack in?

Chuck Blaze
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January 24, 2013 - 12:01 pm
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It’s really player dependent like anything. That said ill given thoughts. I don’t think there is a fundamental difference 3 bet shovi against 20 bb – 40 bb stacks. Both could be opening wide, although in general the 40 hh stack usually opening wider to steal although some players will do that with 20 hh stacks too. Some players will min raise to induce and it’s important to figure out which players do this.
Also I think some players with a big stack call wider cause they Can afford to. There are a lot of factors that go into it.

The above is kinda disjointed and typed on an IPhone from work but hopefully gets the discussion going a bit

rivermen123

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January 24, 2013 - 3:35 pm
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This kind of situation is highly read-dependent. Take notes. Try to build reads on how a certain villain plays different stack sizes at different stages of the tournament. That can be difficult, but it's useful if you can pick it up. For example, if you see that he's willing to raise/fold 20bb or less, that's a helpful read to have. (The same thing applies to 3bet/folding.)

jjpregler
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January 24, 2013 - 10:06 pm
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In addition to what the others have said, the stack size to 3b shove is also dependent on the size of the open.  In general, I use a range of 25% – 30% as a guide.  If my raise would be 25% of the effective stack, then I decide on the shove/standard size 3 bet based on the factors of the situation presented to me.  If my raise represents over 30% of the effective stacks, then I typically shove.  If it is undeer 25% I will usually make a standard sized raise.

Zhengix_Khaan
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February 5, 2013 - 10:02 am
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as rivermen said this is HIGHLY read dependant….

So ill try to offer the best things to consider beforehand. [please someone pipe up if i omit anything]:

1] What type of player is the villian?——- Bad passive? Compelte NIT? TAG? Thinking LAG?

This will tell you a lot about ranges and over all level of competence, and thus general hand ranges. Do the wheels on the brain clock go round and round? Or does he think purely level 1?  Have you seen him squeeze  in the Hijack vs a couple open limpers? Is he able to find a fold? Does he defend blinds?

 

2] Does he consider your stack size, positional advantages, tournament stages [does he value tourney life], when betting?

Can this player be situationally and positionally aware enough to weigh the gravity of the current situation enough to influence his actions. 

 

3] His image v. you current image: I am predicating this answer on the fact that all TPE members are undoubtedly always aware on how they are percieved at the table and are perfect at switching gears to adapt to the table laugh

a] Is he credible: Has he been playing one style in all of the time youve observed him? Has he switched, and can you tell why? [most common is blinding out or losing a big pot]

b] Are YOU credible: What is your curent image at the table?

Are you nitting sweaters for our frozen tundra members in Canada or Norway?

Are you a Spewasurus and have been taking down pots uncontested or with a standard C-bet lately?

If the villian is compitent [meaning he can lay down hands] and finds himself in a short stack situation then perhaps a timely 3bet on his BB could work. BUT this is dependent on his current image, of course and from past hands you have remembered. But, remember, dont get completely caught up in current image alone. Just because someone is currently in aggro mode, it doesnt mean they wont make a timely lay down when proper resistance is presented.

 

4] Outside Factors: Are those behind you clever thinking players? Will they see your 3bet as a squeezing opportunity becuase the raiser was super fishy and you have been semi agg yourself? Or ar they on the 25BB stack cusp and want an easy means of gettin into that 35BB comfort zone?

 

Conclusion: As a general rule, i would tread carefully before 3-betting anyone around 22 bigs. Stop for a split second and look at their stack, your stack, what is their image, what is your current image, whats the stage of the tourney [are they woried about being blinded out thus are forcing a play].

And NOTE: UNLESS you have enough solid information on that villian that dictates current weakness or just a general bad passive player, dont blindly 3bet because it 'seems' like a good spot. Because if they understand anything about short stacking 101, they will no doubtedly also have a decent handle on push/folding ranges thus they will snap jam on you.

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